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Several months ago I started a thread about how I was looking to buy a house to live in in the atlanta area.
Money nor budget is not a huge concern, but safety is. Ideally what I wanted was a very premium looking area with unique architecture, lush pretty yards, and an upscale/premium look. Ansley park and Morningside were two neighborhoods that kept coming up, so I spent a lot of time researching these. I went there and lived in both for a bit when I had time off in airbnbs(not condos or apts but nices houses there on the more popular/better streets; there are a few). I spent a lot of time traversing the areas and more importantly speaking to residents. And the bottom line is this:
Crime *is* an issue, and it *is* on peoples minds.
My general impression is that people in ansley park were on the whole a little more concerned and pessimistic than those in morningside. But even in morningside so many people said some variation of "yeah, your car may very well be broken into". Like wtf.....for that to be commonplace when I'm throwing down 1.5+(maybe much more) is not acceptable.
In ansley the general feeling is worse, and more of a feeling that they are doing all they can to push back against the hordes at the gate, but everyone knows it's only a matter of time until they break through. The off-duty cops they pay to cover shifts(and which they made clear I would be expected to contribute about 500 bucks to yearly) is an example of this. I asked if they thought it made a difference, and some thought it was marginal at best but worth doing. Part of the issue is the number of seeming vagrants/wanderings just aimlessly wandering on the sidewalks of La Prado, Mongomery Ferry, Avery, even Inman. The problem is nobody can really do anything about it- these people don't have any real reason to be there and clearly don't live there, but it's a public sidewalk....you know? One resident who lived on Barksdale said she summoned the off duty officer on who she knew well when she felt a wanderer on the sidewalk was harrasing her and potentially dangerous, but the officer explained he really couldn't do anything given that it's a public sidewalk.
I also talked to many residents in both neighborhoods in their 40s and 50s who had lived there for varying lengths and said "yeah, it's probably time to go soon". The most commonly cited likely destinations were Brookhaven(still ITP I guess) and Alpharetta. When asked specifically why they gave answers from the predicted safety concerns, to just wanting a place that "looks nicer", to not wanting to do all the maintenance and upkeep on a 1920 house, and to concerns about future property values.
On the latter point one guy explained that he still owed a lot on his house worth likely about 1.9 million(it was on Avery). His acknowledges that the market is strong now and prices have risen lately for sure, but what about if things in these neighborhoods reach a more critical point with crime/safety? Then it's like a snowball effect- some people start to move out, then some people stop maintaining these old homes and more go into disrepair; this decreases the general attractiveness of the area which combines with more people moving out and even further decreasing safety to produce a plummeting of home values. Think what happened to both these neighborhoods in the late 1970s through the 1980s. At that time the prices were not high. Using this model he stated he wouldn't be shocked(with the right negative turn of events) if his 1.9 million dollar home plummeted in value to about 5-600k....which is much less than he currently owes.
Look, I don't know the answer and I still may move to one of these areas......but just putting our hands over our ears and acting like these concerns don't exist(in these two neighborhoods which are perhaps the 'most premium' of all the intown neighborhoods if we don't include places like tuxedo park) is not helpful either.
This matches the conversations I've had as well, although I'm not in the market to move you any of these locations.
The number of people living in neighborhoods full of $1 million plus homes who just accept their car will be broken into once a year is shocking. Many seem to be fine with petty theft of things left out as well. They all just write it off as the cost of living, and as long as it doesn't escalate into home break-ins it's not considered a high risk to personal injury. It's bizarre to me but plenty of people put up with it, so whatever floats your boat.
well it's 1+ million dollar lots really, and you are exactly right and it makes no sense. The sad thing is in some cases it *does* escalate to home break ins and muggings. it's the muggings that most of the residents in morningside and especially ansley park told me they were mostly worried about. They are definately altering their lives because of chronic fear of this.
So from what I discovered many of the residents are in a tough spot. Because they like aspects of the neighborhood and they also don't want to move to a mcmansion in Milton or whatever for a number of reasons, but the crime and more importantly worries about the crime where they live in atlanta is causing distress for them. Also, they are in a tough spot because not everyone in these communities is 'well off'.....many are just working professionals who still owe a ton on their house, and they almost feel it's their responsibility to keep propping the safety of the neighborhood up(through like the neighborhood safety associations, which both of these have and ansley's is pretty robust) because that is what keeps the property value up. Their worst fear is these neighborhoods becoming blighted again and then their 2 million dollar house is a severely underwater house.....it's exhausting.
Truth be told, many of the residents(depending on where exactly they live) blame peidmont park. Very few of them actually use the park in any way, but they do understand the relationship it may have to some of these crime numbers. Many would choose to have the park just dissapear if they were being honest lol....
The number of people living in neighborhoods full of $1 million plus homes who just accept their car will be broken into once a year is shocking. Many seem to be fine with petty theft of things left out as well. They all just write it off as the cost of living, and as long as it doesn't escalate into home break-ins it's not considered a high risk to personal injury. It's bizarre to me but plenty of people put up with it, so whatever floats your boat.
Yea I've noticed this and I don't really get it either. Not just the $1M+ homeowners but "cheaper" areas that are still on the more desirable side. Sure, there are plenty of people that think if you spend more than 5 minutes ITP you'll get robbed at gunpoint and beaten and that's not the case. A lot of areas are much safer than given credit for. But a lot of people do seem to just accept those smaller thefts as a "cost of living" like you said. "Just part of living in the city." Every so often you'll hear about those apartment complex parking garages somewhere near the beltline with $2k+ rent and a few dozen cars will get broken into all at once. Even if there's nothing actually noticeable, thieves will still break in and see if they can find something. I'll also walk down a quiet street and see a car every once in a while with a broken window. I don't want to deal with that, even if I'm not personally in danger. Still a PITA and money spent fixing it.
This matches the conversations I've had as well, although I'm not in the market to move you any of these locations.
The number of people living in neighborhoods full of $1 million plus homes who just accept their car will be broken into once a year is shocking. Many seem to be fine with petty theft of things left out as well. They all just write it off as the cost of living, and as long as it doesn't escalate into home break-ins it's not considered a high risk to personal injury. It's bizarre to me but plenty of people put up with it, so whatever floats your boat.
They refuse to move bc of the occasional car break in? GASP. Show me a metro intown neighborhood in the US that doesn't have car break ins.
And to be accurate, they sure as hell don't put up with it but are subject to the Atlanta Police. What would you have them do beyond moving from where they call home?
OP
I live in Brookhaven. Have for some time. I've had my car rifled through. People are not moving to Brookhaven from Ansley. I am in Ansley just about every week. Was just there this morning. We have lot of friends that live in Ansley and Morningside.
Have some (very few) moved from ITP to OTP? Yes. Have some moved as far away as Athens? Yes. That was more to do with the civil unrest from 2020/21 than crime today.
The idea that Ansley Park's values are going to vanish is nothing short of hysteria. It would take a lot more than some car break-ins.
They refuse to move bc of the occasional car break in? GASP. Show me a metro intown neighborhood in the US that doesn't have car break ins.
And to be accurate, they sure as hell don't put up with it but are subject to the Atlanta Police. What would you have them do beyond moving from where they call home?
OP
I live in Brookhaven. Have for some time. I've had my car rifled through. People are not moving to Brookhaven from Ansley. I am in Ansley just about every week. Was just there this morning. We have lot of friends that live in Ansley and Morningside.
Have some (very few) moved from ITP to OTP? Yes. Have some moved as far away as Athens? Yes. That was more to do with the civil unrest from 2020/21 than crime today.
The idea that Ansley Park's values are going to vanish is nothing short of hysteria. It would take a lot more than some car break-ins.
OP is ridiculous on a number of levels, but suffice it to say this person should not live in Atlanta lol.
In that response, I stated the following verbatim:
Quote:
These Atlanta neighborhoods are safe, but they're not crime-free. I'm not sure if that's the case in your current neighborhood. There's a less than 1% chance something will happen to you, and maybe a 10% chance something will happen to your property (house, car, packages) during a given year. That's not zero. If you're looking for as close to zero crime as possible, then you might want to consider certain suburban areas.
And now you're shocked that cars get broken into sometimes in Morningside and Ansley Park? Don't say I didn't warn you!
Saying "guys, cars DO get broken into in Intown Atlanta neighborhoods!" is like saying "water is wet!". Nearly everybody who has been in Metro Atlanta for some time is aware of this. This has been going on regularly for half a century!
And guess what? Most people living in such Intown Atlanta neighborhoods aren't overly concerned about it. Most were aware of the car break-in problem when they moved into the neighborhood. It's already baked into to home values there. Like another person said, many just factor it into "cost of living", and accept the higher risk of smashed windows in exchange for savings in gas or car maintenance.
And yet homes in these neighborhoods are among the most expensive per square foot in the entire Metro Area, and for good reason.
So far in 2023, the following crimes have been reported in Ansley Park and Morningside (source):
Ansley Park (population ~2,000):
- 0 murders.
- 3 aggravated assaults, 2 with a firearm (shootings). Both shootings occurred ON Piedmont Avenue across from the park, basically in Midtown, after dark.
- 4 robberies, 2 armed. One of the armed robberies occurred on 17th St near Peachtree, basically in Midtown. All but one robbery occurred after dark.
- 4 "other larcenies". 3 occurred at Piedmont Ave addresses.
- 23 theft from motor vehicle events (car break-ins).
Morningside-Lenox Park (population ~11,000):
- 1 murder. It occurred after midnight at a sketchy motel on Cheshire Bridge Rd with known prostitution activity, across from a strip club.
- 10 aggravated assaults, 5 with a firearm (shootings). Of the shootings, 4 occurred at bars and clubs on Cheshire Bridge Rd, and 1 at a commercial property on Piedmont Ave next to a hookah lounge. 2 occurred late-night.
- 5 robberies, 4 armed. 3 occurred on Cheshire Bridge Rd or Piedmont Ave (busy throughfares). 2 occurred inside Piedmont Park, which has an official address inside the Morningside neighborhood (so they probably took place somewhere other than Morningside).
- 23 "other larcenies". 14 of the 23 occurred at addresses on Cheshire Bridge Rd or Piedmont Rd.
- 100 theft from motor vehicle events (car break-ins). Half occurred in the Cheshire Bridge/Piedmont corridors north of Fat Matt's Rib Shack, a primarily commercial area barely in Morningside.
Even if we double all of those numbers, hypothetically assuming a uniform report rate of 50%... those aren't extreme numbers.
Also, I'm going to call BS on folks in Ansley/Morningside "just wanting Piedmont Park to disappear". I've literally never seen or heard this sentiment before -- it's a valuable amenity well-loved by many in those neighborhoods, even if an occasional "wanderer" spends time in the park.
Oh, and that's another thing -- most folks in those neighborhoods don't care too much about a few homeless people walking the streets as long as they're not causing any trouble. Again, it's basically always been that way. It's largely baked into home values already.
Finally, I explained in a second response to that original post of yours (comment #15) all of the reasons why homes in these desirable Intown Atlanta neighborhoods will not lose half of their values in the course of a decade, especially relative to Metro Atlanta as a whole. It's just not gonna happen. Might home values continue to appreciate more slowly than, say, North Fulton County? Certainly possible. But that's a lot different than losing value.
Yea I've noticed this and I don't really get it either. Not just the $1M+ homeowners but "cheaper" areas that are still on the more desirable side. Sure, there are plenty of people that think if you spend more than 5 minutes ITP you'll get robbed at gunpoint and beaten and that's not the case. A lot of areas are much safer than given credit for. But a lot of people do seem to just accept those smaller thefts as a "cost of living" like you said. "Just part of living in the city." Every so often you'll hear about those apartment complex parking garages somewhere near the beltline with $2k+ rent and a few dozen cars will get broken into all at once. Even if there's nothing actually noticeable, thieves will still break in and see if they can find something. I'll also walk down a quiet street and see a car every once in a while with a broken window. I don't want to deal with that, even if I'm not personally in danger. Still a PITA and money spent fixing it.
Good points....especially the part about how these are not the sort of reactionary people that think if you spend more than 5 minutes ITP you will get robbed at gunpoint.
I'm certainly not one of those types(I mean after all I'm looking to buy a house in the city) and most of the people I spoke to who live there(and in 2+ million dollar houses not apts/condos) are not overly fearful unreasonable caricature types either. rather they are people who are genuinely concerned and have safety on their mind and realize it's an issue......
OP is ridiculous on a number of levels, but suffice it to say this person should not live in Atlanta lol.
see on the ITP/OTP spectrum I'm actually one of the people who are definately on the side of wanting to live in the city and away from Milton or whatever. There are just some valid concerns. To call someone like that 'ridiculous' when I'm actually *arguing* with everyone else in real life who believes I'm crazy for looking to buy in these neighborhoods as opposed to OTP(or at least someplace ITP like Chastain park or Brookhaven) is pretty far out there......
They refuse to move bc of the occasional car break in? GASP. Show me a metro intown neighborhood in the US that doesn't have car break ins.
And to be accurate, they sure as hell don't put up with it but are subject to the Atlanta Police. What would you have them do beyond moving from where they call home?
OP
I live in Brookhaven. Have for some time. I've had my car rifled through. People are not moving to Brookhaven from Ansley. I am in Ansley just about every week. Was just there this morning. We have lot of friends that live in Ansley and Morningside.
Have some (very few) moved from ITP to OTP? Yes. Have some moved as far away as Athens? Yes. That was more to do with the civil unrest from 2020/21 than crime today.
The idea that Ansley Park's values are going to vanish is nothing short of hysteria. It would take a lot more than some car break-ins.
1) Most people who move from one of the intown neighborhoods generally move farther away than Brookhaven, which is of course still ITP.
2) They aren't going to vanish overnight, but neighborhoods like that(and home values) decline in a domino effect situation- one thing happens which leads to erosion on another thing which then triggers deterioration in a couple more areas and then it snowballs......as for hysteria, we've seen it happen *before* in our lifetimes. These areas were never the 'worst' areas of Atlanta of course, but a few decades ago they were not in a good place and the value was definately not what it is now(even after considering inflation). So again it's happened before and for the very same reasons as then it may happen again. Hell it probably will; it's just the when that is a question mark......
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