Why Are GA schools so bad.... (Jersey: low income, condo, best schools)

[PepperPot75]

Originally Posted by AutumnRose

From what I understand the schools in the Northern areas of the metro are much better. I know someone mentioned Walton but there are quite a few nicely ranked high schools up here. Lassiter, Pope, Sprayberry is ok, trying to think of more because I know there are some....
Anyway, the schools are bad in some areas. And in some areas they are very bad.
It's hard to get used to this type of mixed quality education system coming from the midwest (maybe it's also like this in the NE) where all the schools are pretty darn good and you really don't have to worry about 'bad' school except for inner cities. From what I hear, in GA the worst schools are in the inner city areas and most rural schools are bad. But I am not a parent (yet) so I haven't looked too closely on the issue. We did try to get into a great school area when buying for resale value of the house.

Originally Posted by GeminiGal

A truer statement would be that the majority of Georgia schools are bad. The middle-class and affluent burbs of Atlanta are typically the top schools. The rural and lower income areas of the state are what make Georgia overall look bad. This is also true in most of the South.

One thing that most Southern states have never done is spend enough money per kid on education. Its only going to get worse if we continue to see continued migration South without an increase in property taxes. Overcrowded classrooms and schools are the norn now. One of the big draws relocating to NC, SC, GA etc is the lower property taxes vs. the Northern and Midwestern States.

I recently moved from suburban Atlanta to Columbus, OH. Property taxes are much higher here, but the bulk of that $ goes to the schools. My kids (1 elementary, 2 middle) are doing extremely well. The classrooms are not overcrowded, state of the art equipment, "specials" such as music and a more intense art program at the ES school level, etc. We are paying more in taxes than we ever imagined, but we are pleased at how our money is being spent.

I look back at the mega school systems in the suburban Atlanta area and it makes me wonder where they are headed. Clayton has become an embarassment, Gwinnett & Cobb are too large IMO, Forsyth is probably exploding at the seams. There are always big complaints regarding testing and the control the state had on local systems.

If I were looking to move back, I would be extremely concerned of the direction (even the top schools / systems) are headed.

These are both excellent points. I completely with both of these posts. I have recently become a new parent and I am finding it hard to get used to and comprehend the mixed quality of education.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by GeminiGal

I look back at the mega school systems in the suburban Atlanta area and it makes me wonder where they are headed. Clayton has become an embarassment, Gwinnett & Cobb are too large IMO, Forsyth is probably exploding at the seams. There are always big complaints regarding testing and the control the state had on local systems.

If I were looking to move back, I would be extremely concerned of the direction (even the top schools / systems) are headed.

I guess things like this are relative to your past and present experience. When you say that Cobb is "too large", I'd be curious what you mean by that statement. Are you referring to schools that are overcrowded or just the sheer number of students in the system? The former can be an issue, but I don't see the latter as a weakness at all.

We moved here from up north. I went through the public schools in NY and my children were in the schools in MA for several years. In MA, the problem is exactly the opposite to what you describe. Schools systems are run by each town or city, usually with small populations and a small tax base. Simple things like school buses, fixing the physical plant, and purchasing text books have become challenges in those towns due to the lack of economies of scale. Redundancies in administration and in other areas have caused many of these towns to look at combining into regional systems.

In MA, the spending per pupil is a little higher than in GA, but some of that cost is to defray the inherent difference in cost of living and in other costs to run the system that vary by region or state. Much is also to defray those redundant fixed costs that in Cobb and other large systems are diluted per pupil. I would not say that the quality of education is better in MA than in Cobb. I can't speak for other counties, but they don't matter to me because I live in Cobb.

[CityFan]

Money is just one of the many factors that affect quality of education in school. IMO, parent involvement contributes a great deal to outcome of kids' education. One of the reasons that some schools in metro Atlanta are doing better than others is that many of them are middle class, well off and educated parents who are very dedicated to kids' education and education is regarded as a main path, if not the only one, for their kids to stay in the main stream in this country. They pour most resources into kids education from early on and help them obtain best quality of education possible. I guess even kids are placed in an average school, they still can get good education if family is taking some sort of resposibilities. Public school system can only do that much and the goal of that system is educate kids to become good citicens, rather than scientists or something like that. Anything beyond that is left to parents, I guess.

[niktesla14]

Another thing to consider may be who they test. I am from SC and this state tests all students/schools. I have heard that is a big factor in SC test scores. To further explain what was once explained to me.... some states do not mandate that all students at all schools take the tests. Therefore... maybe they are only 46th because the didnt leave out the children that would not fair well on the test.
Just FYI!

[dawnatlanta]

I have long been interested in this topic and I wish there were some answers/plans/solutions. It is very real that the schools are not "on par" with other schools in this country. I moved to Marietta from PA at the start of my 7th grade year back in the mid-80s. In PA, I can say that in the 6th grade, my grades were C's and B's. I remember it being kind of hard. When I moved here, I was almost a FULL YEAR ahead of my classmates in both math and English. I immediately was making straight A's w/out trying all that much. And I didn't even HAVE a science teacher here, truth be told. I would say for sure that I missed an entire year of science in the 7th grade and then again in the 8th grade. The teachers were that bad. We literally did almost nothing but joke around and do worksheets and slide shows. It was really like a free period both years, which of course at that age I loved, but is shocking (and sad) looking back. Abosultely we have great teachers in probably every school, but ABSOLUTELY we have really terrible ones as well.

My brother and I both experienced a drastic change in our grades and education level. We were so far ahead. I have two younger siblings who started Kindergarten and First Grade here in GA, and my mom was really, really surprised how far behind they were in reading right from the start. We lived in a nice, middle class neighborhood with a high ranking neighborhood school and still the difference was shocking. She sent them to tutoring every summer through a lot of elementary school simply because she knew from experience with her older two that they were NOT being taught the same curriculum as her older two, and they were very far behind where we were.

I think there needs to be more accountability for curriculum and teacher quality/accountability. But how do you change a whole curriculum and teachers when most people involved sit around and say that things aren't that bad, or resist change, or refuse to adopt the curriculums from proven better districts? Too much pride and blinders, I guess..... If I could afford private schools, we would certainly go that route....

[Scraper Enthusiast]

The best answer can be that of demographics. The south generally scores near the bottom because it has a greater black population than the rest of the country. Blacks, in every area of the country, score much lower against other races, particularly Caucasians and Mongoloids. Hence, when the south a greater percentage of blacks, the differences in results is going to show. Look at the highest states, in terms of education. Most have a relatively low black population. The ones with the highest black populations, by and large, rank near the bottom.

Why does this discussion even need to be addressed. It's so blatantly obvious, a child could figure it out given the facts and figures. Whites and other races do roughly the same against whites from other regions with the same socioeconomic background. The same can be said for blacks.

[jenml]

I was actually suprised by this topic? We are relocating to GA in the fall and the majority of schools I've looked at (mostly elementary though) in the areas we are looking to live all seem to rank really well. hmmm

But we do currently reside in Arizona where our stats are horrible. We have one of the highest HS dropout rates in US!

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by jenml

I was actually suprised by this topic? We are relocating to GA in the fall and the majority of schools I've looked at (mostly elementary though) in the areas we are looking to live all seem to rank really well. hmmm

But we do currently reside in Arizona where our stats are horrible. We have one of the highest HS dropout rates in US!

Many of the schools in the Atlanta metro area are indeed quite good and high performing, at least as good as in other states. The mantra of many on this forum is that "Georgia Schools are bad", when there is no such thing as "Georgia schools" but many separate county and city systems that vary in quality, just as the counties and cities themselves vary in quality. Schools in rural and poor areas will of course not be as good as those in more affluent ones, but you didn't need me to tell you that, did you?

As you have, do your own research and compare based on objective criteria.

[RainyRainyDay]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Many of the schools in the Atlanta metro area are indeed quite good and high performing, at least as good as in other states. The mantra of many on this forum is that "Georgia Schools are bad", when there is no such thing as "Georgia schools" but many separate county and city systems that vary in quality, just as the counties and cities themselves vary in quality. Schools in rural and poor areas will of course not be as good as those in more affluent ones, but you didn't need me to tell you that, did you?

As you have, do your own research and compare based on objective criteria.

Yes. jenml, see the schools thread on this page //www.city-data.com/forum/atlan...e-keep-10.html posts 95-98 for several testimonials from parents who moved from "better" northern jurisdictions but find their local metro Atlanta public schools superior to the well-reputed schools back home.

I'm one of those parents, and it aggravates me that many of the posters who knock Georgia public schools, do not have school-age children, nor do they claim to be teachers or have other qualifications lending insight into education.

[irishvanguard]

If anyone does their homework as an adult, you will see that the divide comes, not with rural, urban, and suburban, but mainly with ethnicity and economic conditions.

Schools in the Northeast and the Midwest have terrible test scores where there is a high ethnicity rate and a low socioeconomic status. So where should any surprise be when the same pockets of problems show up in Georgia?

Georgia actually started "No Child Left Behind" a few years before the nation did to help close this gap. It addresses the gap between ethnicities and socioeconomic groups. But it also measures whether there is improvements even at the top scoring levels (with, for instance, Asian high scorers as a group).