Gwinnett votes "No" on MARTA vote... (Atlanta, Alpharetta: employment, purchases)

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Back in the 1960s or even 1970s, you might be correct. In the 2010's, it's crap, especially when half the population of the metro area has moved here within the last 30 years, many from the "enlightened" northern states, the west coast, or from outside the US.

Race is a lazy excuse and is used way too often when people want to cast a wide net without getting into the substance.

Nope, not a lazy excuse whatsoever; it's just the uncomfortable truth. It's not the only reason in 2010, but it's still the root cause and constitutes a major reason.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

Nope, not a lazy excuse whatsoever; it's just the uncomfortable truth. It's not the only reason in 2010, but it's still the root cause and constitutes a major reason.

I'm not so sure about it being the root cause anymore outside of a small minority of idiots. Most opposition to MARTA that I've found in Cobb stemmed from paying for the system for 10-15 years before a rail line would open (or not even planning to use it). Race would be more of a secondary reason, but in this day and age, certainly not the primary.

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by Gulch

I'm not so sure about it being the root cause anymore outside of a small minority of idiots. Most opposition to MARTA that I've found in Cobb stemmed from paying for the system for 10-15 years before a rail line would open (or not even planning to use it). Race would be more of a secondary reason, but in this day and age, certainly not the primary.

The root cause is still the root cause; all of the other types of opposition (which have some legitimacy) have branched off from the original reason transit was so repudiated when it was first established. And it wasn't too hard to read behind the lines of Joe Dendy's statement about MARTA riders from Atlanta coming into Cobb to the Braves stadium. Furthermore, even back in the 70's, people said it wasn't about race and it was about taxes, crime, etc. Lee Atwater's (in)famous quote still rings true.

[cqholt]

Originally Posted by Gulch

I'm not so sure about it being the root cause anymore outside of a small minority of idiots. Most opposition to MARTA that I've found in Cobb stemmed from paying for the system for 10-15 years before a rail line would open (or not even planning to use it). Race would be more of a secondary reason, but in this day and age, certainly not the primary.

Got to do studies to be considered for federal funds. Do youbthink Tim Lee's BRT line will get built in 5 years?

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by Gulch

I'm not so sure about it being the root cause anymore outside of a small minority of idiots. Most opposition to MARTA that I've found in Cobb stemmed from paying for the system for 10-15 years before a rail line would open (or not even planning to use it). Race would be more of a secondary reason, but in this day and age, certainly not the primary.

Exactly, and people can't have it both ways. Either everyone in the suburbs is a old style southern white redneck racist, or we're all fast talking, fast driving, southern culture diluting Yankee scum from up north.

Either way, a majority of those who now live in Gwinnett, Cobb, Forsyth, and other suburbs were not here when the original MARTA referendum was taken, nor were we here in the 1970s, and most weren't here in the 1980s either.

The uncomfortable truth is that some just can't accept that a majority of voters in these counties just don't want to pay a penny sales tax and connect to a transit system that offers THEM little value. The folks who want to label us racists assume that because they value what MARTA specifically has to offer, that it must be the same for everyone, and that you'd need to be stupid or a racist to disagree.

I'm just sick and tired of those same lame arguments. Accept the truth or don't, but it doesn't change.

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Exactly, and people can't have it both ways. Either everyone in the suburbs is a old style southern white redneck racist, or we're all fast talking, fast driving, southern culture diluting Yankee scum from up north.

Either way, a majority of those who now live in Gwinnett, Cobb, Forsyth, and other suburbs were not here when the original MARTA referendum was taken, nor were we here in the 1970s, and most weren't here in the 1980s either.

The uncomfortable truth is that some just can't accept that a majority of voters in these counties just don't want to pay a penny sales tax and connect to a transit system that offers THEM little value. The folks who want to label us racists assume that because they value what MARTA specifically has to offer, that it must be the same for everyone, and that you'd need to be stupid or a racist to disagree.

I'm just sick and tired of those same lame arguments. Accept the truth or don't, but it doesn't change.

Just because the root cause of opposition to MARTA in the 'burbs is racism doesn't mean that everyone who opposes it is racist.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Exactly, and people can't have it both ways. Either everyone in the suburbs is a old style southern white redneck racist, or we're all fast talking, fast driving, southern culture diluting Yankee scum from up north.

Either way, a majority of those who now live in Gwinnett, Cobb, Forsyth, and other suburbs were not here when the original MARTA referendum was taken, nor were we here in the 1970s, and most weren't here in the 1980s either.

The uncomfortable truth is that some just can't accept that a majority of voters in these counties just don't want to pay a penny sales tax and connect to a transit system that offers THEM little value. The folks who want to label us racists assume that because they value what MARTA specifically has to offer, that it must be the same for everyone, and that you'd need to be stupid or a racist to disagree.

I'm just sick and tired of those same lame arguments. Accept the truth or don't, but it doesn't change.

Neil, it's a little bit of both. Strong evidence for this can be seen in the fact that a largely conservative white North Fulton is solidly in favor of extending rail service all the way to Windward Parkway.

[bfarley30]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Exactly, and people can't have it both ways. Either everyone in the suburbs is a old style southern white redneck racist, or we're all fast talking, fast driving, southern culture diluting Yankee scum from up north.

Either way, a majority of those who now live in Gwinnett, Cobb, Forsyth, and other suburbs were not here when the original MARTA referendum was taken, nor were we here in the 1970s, and most weren't here in the 1980s either.

The uncomfortable truth is that some just can't accept that a majority of voters in these counties just don't want to pay a penny sales tax and connect to a transit system that offers THEM little value. The folks who want to label us racists assume that because they value what MARTA specifically has to offer, that it must be the same for everyone, and that you'd need to be stupid or a racist to disagree.

I'm just sick and tired of those same lame arguments. Accept the truth or don't, but it doesn't change.

The same arguments DO apply. The problem is, particularly in Cobb, what is transit going to do for THEM directly. There is nothing thought about what it does for the county as a whole; what it does for the region; what it does for the state.

These are the same people that would rather drive into the city and clog streets. The same people that don't want MARTA but are fine with funding a lower quality transit service in CCT. Yet they are just fine connecting directly to the MARTA system like the crooks they think are going to come out and rob them aren't smart enough to transfer from MARTA to CCT.

Those sound like stupid and/or racist people to me. And sorry because people from the Northeast support transit and if anything want more of it out to the burbs to not be stuck in the traffic that these suburban counties create.

The great thing is that the people that originally voted against MARTA aren't around and a new breed of people are moving in. Look at Clayton; look how close the vote is in Gwinnett. In the next 10 years Cobb will be the lone stand out trying to be its own "big city" still thinking with a small town Georgia mind!!

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by bfarley30

And sorry because people from the Northeast support transit and if anything want more of it out to the burbs to not be stuck in the traffic that these suburban counties create.

And sorry...I'm born and raised in NYC until age 18, and lived in Massachusetts for 16 years as well, and as I've stated way too many times, I support transit that provides solutions to me and my neighbors, many of whom are also from the northeast. I (and many of my neighbors) who do not go downtown and do not get any value from the current radial MARTA system, do not support paying a 1 cent sales tax.

It does me no good to drive to a station by Cumberland to go somewhere I don't need to go. As I've stated, if there was a light rail line to Alpharetta or to Gwinnett, I might consider riding it when needed. If there was light rail in Cobb that went up and down Barrett Pkwy, I might consider riding it. Those are not what is suggested. Instead, billion dollar connections to MARTA around Arts Center are suggested from Cumberland or Town Center. No thanks.

[WanderingImport]

Originally Posted by neil0311

And sorry...I'm born and raised in NYC until age 18, and lived in Massachusetts for 16 years as well, and as I've stated way too many times, I support transit that provides solutions to me and my neighbors, many of whom are also from the northeast. I (and many of my neighbors) who do not go downtown and do not get any value from the current radial MARTA system, do not support paying a 1 cent sales tax.

It does me no good to drive to a station by Cumberland to go somewhere I don't need to go. As I've stated, if there was a light rail line to Alpharetta or to Gwinnett, I might consider riding it when needed. If there was light rail in Cobb that went up and down Barrett Pkwy, I might consider riding it. Those are not what is suggested. Instead, billion dollar connections to MARTA around Arts Center are suggested from Cumberland or Town Center. No thanks.

You've gotta start somewhere. A connection from Arts Center to Cumberland would eventually go further in to Cobb (if it passed in Cobb). The longer it takes to pass the referendum though, the less likely it'll get done in our lifetimes.