Upward Mobility (income) in Atlanta (Boston: 2013, lawyers, buying)

[lastminutemom]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/22/bu...ers.html?_r=2&

This geography appears to play a major role in making Atlanta one of the metropolitan areas where it is most difficult for lower-income households to rise into the middle class and beyond, according to a new study that other researchers are calling the most detailed portrait yet of income mobility in the United States.

My initial takeaways are this:

• The growth of population (though slowed a bit by recession) allows employers to pay less because there is an oversupply of employees
• People relocate here without a plan.
• The worst performing school systems have public transportation trapping many families in low performing schools and children aren't being well educated.

I also think, though the article doesn't directly address this, that mid-level jobs with major corporations and small businesses don't pay as well in the South as they do in other places. We know that teachers make less in the South than in the Northeast, for example.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by lastminutemom

I also think, though the article doesn't directly address this, that mid-level jobs with major corporations and small businesses don't pay as well in the South as they do in other places. We know that teachers make less in the South than in the Northeast, for example.

Many white collar jobs don't pay as well here as, say, in Boston or New York. For example, in the law firm where I previously worked, the lawyers in our NYC office were paid a significant percentage higher than the Atlanta lawyers even where there was disparity between the number of hours worked, dollars originated, etc. They justify this (and I cannot help but agree that it is fair) due to the cost-of-living disparity between the cities.

[Mishap]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Many white collar jobs don't pay as well here as, say, in Boston or New York. For example, in the law firm where I previously worked, the lawyers in our NYC office were paid a significant percentage higher than the Atlanta lawyers even where there was disparity between the number of hours worked, dollars originated, etc. They justify this (and I cannot help but agree that it is fair) due to the cost-of-living disparity between the cities.

Unless they were being paid 50-60% more at a minimum they're still at the short end of the COL stick. You also have certain market factors such as competition for top talent. I'm sure a few lawyers could have been lured to Wall St directly even though the skills are fairly different...they consume the same raw material of exceedingly smart/money driven souls. Even if white collar jobs are not so great down here, they'd drive down the overall income curve so the bottom quin-tile wouldn't have as far to go to get to the top. That said, the overall avg income in NYC area isn't much higher than it is here. They just make do w/ less housing and fewer cars.

The only thing this map tells me is that race is still a big factor. Something tells me the folks in the bottom quin-tile along the Bible Belt are a bit more tan than in other regions. Throwing money at schools won't help things if the families are too poor to keep kids in school and studying and anything that helps minorities get to better jobs is pretty taboo in this fine state.

[fzx]

Originally Posted by Mishap

Unless they were being paid 50-60% more at a minimum they're still at the short end of the COL stick. You also have certain market factors such as competition for top talent. I'm sure a few lawyers could have been lured to Wall St directly even though the skills are fairly different...they consume the same raw material of exceedingly smart/money driven souls. Even if white collar jobs are not so great down here, they'd drive down the overall income curve so the bottom quin-tile wouldn't have as far to go to get to the top. That said, the overall avg income in NYC area isn't much higher than it is here. They just make do w/ less housing and fewer cars.

The only thing this map tells me is that race is still a big factor. Something tells me the folks in the bottom quin-tile along the Bible Belt are a bit more tan than in other regions. Throwing money at schools won't help things if the families are too poor to keep kids in school and studying and anything that helps minorities get to better jobs is pretty taboo in this fine state.

At first glance, I thought you were right. But, GA is a majority white state out of metro Atlanta area. Why we have the same problem in these locations?

To me, lack of compeition is a major factor. For a high tech employer, where do you think it will likely open an company? CA of course because it can draw far more qualified talents there than in GA. And talents move there to hunt for jobs. If the pay is not competitive, talents will move to a company next door. The cycle goes on. Here, a tech company may be lured here for the low wages needed to pay. However, there are fewer alternatives and even talents will stay around. Without constantly shopping around and without pressure from competitions, they will lose their edges and finally justify the low pay status......

Regarding to the education sys, I do not think GTech or UGA are bad but how can we keep these around and sharpen their skills?

[Mishap]

It's not the colleges that are the problem. We throw tons of lottery money their way. Our state simply isn't competitive when it comes to bringing in tech companies or any sustainable competitive advantage. Google/Microsoft/et al show up and pick out our top grads w/ six figure salaries immediately (something like 50% of GT grads leave the state). Other states like California despite their horrendous cost of living/tax rates/etc are able to poach our best talent while we sit around using tax money for corporate welfare buying company HQs and bankrolling terrible movies like it creates anything ongoing.

Play around with the UGA poverty stats. African Americans make up less than 30% of the population but are over 50% of those below the poverty line. I'm sure it's similar for most other southern states.

UGA Initiative on Poverty and the Economy

[cqholt]

A Child in Seattle Has A Much Better Chance of Escaping Poverty Than a Child in Atlanta - Emily Badger - The Atlantic Cities
It seems to be concentrated in the South.

[belleislerunner]

From the "Atlantic Cities link" above...

"What separates all of these places is more than just the strength of the local economy or the generosity of the tax
benefits. We do find higher rates of upward income mobility in areas with high rates of economic growth over the
past decade, but the vast majority of the difference in mobility across areas is unrealted to economic growth.

So what is it related to? The researchers identified several factors with strong correlations: school quality, social
capital and family structure (metros with more two-parent households seemed to have higher income mobility.)

"Metros with two-parent households had higher income mobility" - here is my shocked face! =O

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by AnsleyPark

Many white collar jobs don't pay as well here as, say, in Boston or New York. For example, in the law firm where I previously worked, the lawyers in our NYC office were paid a significant percentage higher than the Atlanta lawyers even where there was disparity between the number of hours worked, dollars originated, etc. They justify this (and I cannot help but agree that it is fair) due to the cost-of-living disparity between the cities.

There is a HUGE cost of living difference between Atlanta and NYC. You're comparing apples and oranges. Even between Boston and NYC, my company paid a 15% differential, which barely covers the tax difference.

[10 feet tall]

Here is the next installment of the same thing. Atlanta not getting any breaks with these folks.

Are the Suburbs Where the American Dream Goes to Die? - Matthew O'Brien - The Atlantic

[toll_booth]

I was just about to start a thread with this story.

It's very interesting that all we hear about the northeast is "taxes, taxes, taxes." Taxes are only a piece of the puzzle. A more accurate view involves the total cost of living--groceries, gas, utilities, basic conveniences, taxes, etc.

My goal isn't to bash the South (though if I sense overwhelming resistance to brute facts, then I will not hesitate to do so). My goal is to invite people from the struggling areas of the country to consult the more nearly successful ones for anti-poverty strategies.