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In regards to density, there are many low-dense areas outside of Chicago (Lake County/McHenry County) and NYC (Long Island/Suffolk County) that are serviced by commuter rail. It can and should happen. There is just no way that a meto area, that currently has 5 million and will add 2 million more in 25 years, can go without transit.
There is no grid system in Metro Atlanta, which means that there are only a few roads available that connect different areas of the region. Also, you can only add so many lanes before it's enough. I honestly think that commuter rail is inevitable...we'll just have to wait and see if a crisis has to happen before the problem is solved or will local and state government finally see the need to cooperate.
I think a better alternative is to expand the express buses that run downtown (not just around cobb), as they are needed. I live right by one in Acworth and would use it, if it got me close enough to my job or possibly another bus, but it doesnt.
Next would be to incoporate the 'Truck' only lanes and 'Truck' ramps.
Create HOV that runs thru Cobb.
There's a big plan somewhere that adds 2 truck lanes and 2 HOV lanes on both sides of 75 from wade green to downtown. It looks like a good idea.
The other need is for people to car-pool, not enough do. When I worked at Delta I would car-pool from Acworth to the Airport, then when I moved to Smyrna I found someone else to car-pool with.
But again, car-pooling will probably only work with people who work at large companies, meaning finding someone in your area that goes to the same area is hard to find.
If you could incorporate hov, truck lanes/ramps, and car pool it would greatly solve alot of traffic problems.
In regards to density, there are many low-dense areas outside of Chicago (Lake County/McHenry County) and NYC (Long Island/Suffolk County) that are serviced by commuter rail. It can and should happen. There is just no way that a meto area, that currently has 5 million and will add 2 million more in 25 years, can go without transit.
There is no grid system in Metro Atlanta, which means that there are only a few roads available that connect different areas of the region. Also, you can only add so many lanes before it's enough. I honestly think that commuter rail is inevitable...we'll just have to wait and see if a crisis has to happen before the problem is solved or will local and state government finally see the need to cooperate.
There are also low density areas of the San Francisco Bay Area that make use of commuter rail (Amtrak). Heck, I lived 45 miles from SF and had my commuting choices of Amtrak, the Ferry system, busses, or Bay Area Rapid Transit (light rail). So it can definitely be done.
I also agree that there will be enough transplants who will eventually rage against the suburban/rebel machine. Those who want to keep it separated will either keep moving further out until they're eventually commuting from Alabama and Tennessee. But we forward-thinking people will eventually make this transportation thing work.
In regards to rail and crime, I don't think Lenox and Phipps are exactly hurting for business since MARTA arrived there. Also, it seems that areas of Cobb, Gwinnett, and Clayton have done a decent job of attracting a lot of crime without transit. There's just no correlation...and if there is, it's fairly negligible.
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That's not entirely true. Time to be bluntly honest here. Shortly after the Lenox MARTA station opened, crime at the mall DID increase noticeably. I knew people who managed two stores there at the time, and they said there was a very noticeable increase in things like theft, fighting in the mall, group of loiterers, etc. Yes, mostly by teens. At one point the food court was more like a gangsta hangout than an eatery, and many patrons were steering away altogether. At that time those two stores had drops in revenue.
But new management came in who wasn't afraid to literally kick the asses of the teens who were causing trouble. Kicked them out, told them not to come back, etc etc. The mall rebounded and now years later, crime has dropped and things are not much worse than they were before the rail opened.
So the fact is, there's a certain element of bored roudy teens who do ride the rails looking to cause trouble. I *do* understand people not wanting a rail station 50 feet from their homes. I lived in Brookhaven before the MARTA station opened there years ago. Immediately after it opened, there was an increase in theft at the shopping center across the street, car break-ins in the parking lot, and the apartments I lived in one block away had several break ins, with one suspect actually being caught - at the MARTA station. No, career criminals are not going to use public transit to commit crimes. Petty teens MIGHT and though not always, sometimes do. Either way, petty teen or older crook, you don't want anyone busting into your home or car because of something opening up that helps them get away. Ok, so I'm going to face a fact here, that yes, rail *CAN* bring criminal elements to an area (and yes, some areas get it and it grows without transit as well).
Ok, that out of the way, the PROBLEM is that there are solutions to this, but no one will explore them.
Years ago I wrote to MARTA about their failed attempts to expand into Gwinnett. The reason? All the proposed stations were VERY close to residential areas. Hence - fear (real or overdone) of crime. I told them that people in Gwinnett already relied on cars anyway. So, they should redo their proposed stations and locate them in more industrial areas that are not within walking distance of residential areas. This way they could have larger parking lots to get more cars off the road, and, being away from subdivisions, it would ease people's fears about someone walking off the rail, doing "whatever" is bad, and walking back on to get away. They could still expand, still take tons of cars off the road, but get rid of the crime fear/potential problem, by simply relocating where the stations would be.
Nope - not one answer. No one listened. There could be 3-4 heavy rail stations right now up there if someone had taken that and flown with it, I'm sure. Instead they're still scratching their heads. DUH.
The huge problem I see with many discussed plans and ideas for light rail or rail transit is that it's an arterial (spoke) approach. However, the perimeter between Doraville and Cobb Galleria is a right-of-way along a mostly commercial and industrial route where most residential is high-density.
Why can't light rail be built along 285? The entry to the North-South heavy rail line could be made where it crosses 285 and allow workers to connect through there into the city center on higher-capacity trains. For instance, A Smyrna citizen may drive to the Galleria area, hop on the light rail to a new station near North Springs, then hop on heavy rail down into downtown.
Going for a non-arterial plan loop plan would skip avoid several problems with other plans:
* Concerns about bringing in crime -- The stations along the northern part of 285 would be primarily comparable demographics.
* Northside -- An arterial traveling along the I-75 cooridor will deal with resistance in the Northside/Vinings area. They will fight tooth and nail about a train being brought through their neighborhoods coming from downtown.
* Alternative to the perimeter -- Traffic is horrendous along the perimeter, and this would provide people who work and live along the perimeter an alternative
* Economic Development along perimeter -- This would encourage more economic development along the perimeter
I live in Smyrna, btw. I would like stations at Cobb Galleria and near central Marietta, but nothing in-between. With enough parking at both stations, that's really all we need. If there were a station near Cobb Galleria, I probably would use it since I work in Peachtree Center in downtown Atlanta.
As far as safety is concerned, if they weren't built in residential areas, and enough police were around to keep an eye on the "undesirables", I think we'd be ok.
Last edited by netdragon; 03-04-2007 at 05:12 PM..
I live in Smyrna, btw. I would like stations at Cobb Galleria and near central Marietta, but nothing in-between. With enough parking at both stations, that's really all we need. If there were a station near Cobb Galleria, I probably would use it since I work in Peachtree Center in downtown Atlanta.
As far as safety is concerned, if they weren't built in residential areas, and enough police were around to keep an eye on the "undesirables", I think we'd be ok.
That was something I discussed in another thread when I was thinking back to when I sent in proposals to MARTA about how to get in good with Gwinnett voters. By changing their proposed stations which were near residential areas, to just three that were in more industrial areas, with larger parking lots.
At the time the guy running MARTA was (spelling?) Ken Gregor, and he dismissed it. That guy was a real goober from another era. I also proposed light rail that extended from Doraville into Gwinnett and his response was, "I don't think people would want to have to walk off of one type of train and get on another". OMG - like people haven't been doing that for DECADES in NYC, Chicago, San Francisco, Washington... etc. We must be "special needs" since we're apparently too dense to figure out how to transfer trains. I tried sending in the same stuff once leadership changed but they never even acknowledged my letters.
We must be "special needs" since we're apparently too dense to figure out how to transfer trains.
Perhaps they could make the trains look like "short busses"?
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I-285
