What's Middle Class? (Atlanta: mortgage, attorney, neighborhoods)

[atlantagreg30127]

Well, maybe they need to have a "Market class".

In other words, since it's so much more expensive to live in San Francisco or New York City, your rage of what places you into "middle class" would be determined on the cost of living in those markets. Whereas in Atlanta or Dallas, you would have to earn less to fall into middle class in those cities. Making $200k a year in Atlanta would make you middle class *in this market area*, but in NYC you'd have to make $500k per year to fall into that same level.

Yeah, sounds complicated, but it's sorta what folks are hinting at here. Each region or "market area" has different costs of living, average salaries, etc. Maybe a new system should come out that takes that into consideration. Hey, if you move here from CA or NY then, you'd suddenly be upper crust just for moving here!

[WestCobb]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Understood, but many class warfare types like to use numbers like 200K and paint a picture of someone who is "rich" and doesn't "need" their money, thereby being able to pay higher taxes.

I'm a class warfare type, and I don't think 200K is rich at all -- even though that is more than double than my household income. Consequently, neither does Obama or any other mainstream Democrats. That's why he's going to cut taxes for people who make 250K or less a year as president. I define "rich" as someone whose income is more passive than active when they are under the age of say, 35. I don't define a lawyer who works 60+ hours a week, married to a mid level corporate employee who also works 60+ hours a week as rich per se, even if they make $500,000 a year. Yes, they have options most don't have but they are still working and are thus somewhat in touch with working class values. Now, I define a 25-year-old who lives in a house his parents bought him, who earns 100K a year passively on investments his grandfather or great grandfather made as rich. It's an old tune -- not about rich and poor so much as capital and labor. If this economy keeps tanking a lot more people are going to learn the words and start singing along.

[Scraper Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by lastminutemom

Actually, the model I speak of controls the percentage of low income students and it works -- though not as greatly as people had hoped. What is clear is that the presence of the low income students doesn't negatively impact the scores of the other students. However, the poor students still go home to homes that are generally language poor and that lack the values that show that education matters.

In what school has this "worked"?

[Scraper Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by RainyRainyDay

Without context, I'd completely agree with the above. However the Original Post on this thread was:



So the original question was specifically about income and lifestyle. I'd say lifestyle options are very much restricted by income, towards the lower end of the income scale, so this was a very income-oriented question, and the earlier responses on this thread were framed accordingly.

If you want to talk about middle-class values, I'd say the key concept is deferred gratification. It's hard for the poor (whether here or in third-world countries) to have this value, because they don't see themselves as having much control over their lives.

Where did you get the idea that the "poor" don't feel they have much control over their lives, a Marxist sociology textbook? While some poor people may feel hopeless, they definitely don't spend and not save because of a feeling of "not having control of their lives". They spend and don't save because they want to spend, and because saving won't generate much money to begin with, since necessities are what they are spending most of their income on. Hence, what's the point of not splurging every once in a while. If this is what you mean by saying "they don't have much control over your lives", then fine, but I'd like to see something specific as it relates to feeling that they don't have much control over their lives.

[Scraper Enthusiast]

I must ask, what do some of you "$200,000s" do for a living? I mean, that is a very high household income. My wife and I make less than one hundred thousand dollars a year, combined, it's even less after taxes, and we're still able to save a little money, granted we feel pinched at certain times of the year.

If my household income were at $200,000, we'd definitely be "rolling in the dough".

[Scraper Enthusiast]

[quote=kaday;5323749][quote=financelife;5322428]

Originally Posted by kaday

Well you make $200K but you have kids so you want to live in an area with good schools so you have to buy a more expensive home. Because you make 200K you have to work very long hours therefore you don't want a commute. If both spouses work you need to pay for two good working cars and childcare. You need to save money for your kids college education and your retirement. You may need to support aging parents. If you make a little more, you get hit by the alternative minimum tax.




Because it would take years for the school system to reap the benefit. You can say whatever you want. I really don't care but the fact of the matter is if you value education you are going to do whatever it takes to ensure your kids get a good education. I never said "bad areas". I believe those are your words. It is no secret that lower income areas tend to have schools that perform well below middle and upper income areas. I never said I was suffering nor did anyone else on this thread, we are just saying we aren't wealthy. You sure have a big chip on your shoulder.

The problem with different schools, thereby ensuring either a "good" education or a "poor" education, is the clientele. It can create either a chaotic school environment, or a pleasant learning environment. Teachers have to uphold the same standards, and they have to meet the same training requirements. Therefore, the argument of some schools not having trained teachers is bogus. It is true that the "good" schools have teachers who don't leave, while the "bad" schools have teachers who don't stay very long. This does lead to more first year teachers teaching in "bad" schools. However, it's a symptom, not the cause. The cause is the "culture" of the students in the "bad" schools.

[Scraper Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by masonbarge

First, middle class is not merely a matter of money or lifestyle, but also includes status. A teacher making $40,000 a year would IMO be "middle class", whereas a welder making $60,000 would not.

Most people posting don't seem to have had much experience with the upper classes. They know who they are. I would say, based on income, that a doctor making $1,000,000 per year is definitely "upper middle" class, especially if he lives in the city.

There is a traditional "lower upper" and "upper upper" class. The only way to be "upper upper" is to inherit money that's several generations old and have access to a certain level of highly selective clubs. "Lower upper" would include people like highly paid athletes and performers.

My observations, YMMV.

Someone who makes $1,000,000 per year is not middle class by any stretch of the imagination.

[Merin]

Originally Posted by Scraper Enthusiast

I must ask, what do some of you "$200,000s" do for a living? I mean, that is a very high household income. My wife and I make less than one hundred thousand dollars a year, combined, it's even less after taxes, and we're still able to save a little money, granted we feel pinched at certain times of the year.

If my household income were at $200,000, we'd definitely be "rolling in the dough".

Our household income is about 200k combined. My husband is a Finance Director I am an Executive assistant. 5 years ago we made less then 100k combined, we were on a budget then and to this day we are still on a budget. The dollar amounts haven't increased too much, because I do not believe in the make more spend more philosophy. I am all about saving, because you never know what will happen. The only noticeable increases are the amounts we spend on our 2 big vacations a year, and Christmas presents for our parents.

[Merin]

Originally Posted by Scraper Enthusiast

Someone who makes $1,000,000 per year is not middle class by any stretch of the imagination.

I totally agree with you. Unless the city he is speaking of is Monte Carlo, I cannot see how 1 Mill a year is Middle Class.

[financelife]

I agree with you Scraper. Many of the $200K folks on here make it sound like they are struggling sometimes. LOL. And the sad thing is they probably truly are! WTF. haha

I make $100K with wife, and if by miracle we got a $100K increase in pay, I would definitely be rolling in the dough. After 10 years, I would have approx $1MM saved. And we have a child. Even on our measley income, we still manage to save. Ummmm, that's because we live below our means....... And that doesn't mean suffering. As soon as we began working, we saved cash which was enough for a down payment on a nice home in a subdivision ($225K-$300K) and we still had money left for an emergency fund that would cover us for 2 yrs. The home price was on the low end of the neighborhood.
We only started cooking when baby was born, otherwise we ate out most days. We kept our old college cars that were paid off. Baby goes to a decent daycare and not the most expensive we could afford.
We have been enjoying life on our $100K. And because I'm around lots of people whose household make half of ours or less, I feel content and middle to upper middle class.
The problem with people who start making lots of money is that they drive up costs of living. You have to watch out because it is difficult resisting urges and consumer mentality. And it is okay to want the best for your child, but some of you are living in La-La land. Just because your kid goes to Harvard, for instance, doesn't mean he will be successful unless he/she is really bright.
And we're both under 28 yrs old.