What's Middle Class? (Atlanta, Buckhead: rental, houses, to buy)

[wjgough]

Most economists I read say true middle income falls between $37,000 to $100,000. Above that is considered upper income. Lower income families and individuals make under $37, 000 but above $10,500. Below that is poverty level. Recently, because of politics the bar is set at $250,000 for middle class, but that definitely is way above the scale.

[GeorgiaLakeSearch]

Originally Posted by wjgough

Most economists I read say true middle income falls between $37,000 to $100,000. Above that is considered upper income. Lower income families and individuals make under $37, 000 but above $10,500. Below that is poverty level. Recently, because of politics the bar is set at $250,000 for middle class, but that definitely is way above the scale.

Well it really depends where you live. A family that makes 250k a year living in Manhattan would not be living an extravagant lifestyle. They would not be summering in the Hamptons or the Adirondacks.

[GeorgiaLakeSearch]

Originally Posted by mmenomen

Neil wrote: I agree with this and make less than you do by more than one multiple (making considerably less). I would guess that your income is in the top tax bracket and you most likely pay through the nose in taxes. It should be flat tax for all income levels: fairtax is a decent alternative to the mess we have now with the IRS. People who earn more should not have to pay a higher percentage in taxes according to their gross income range.

I have some friends and family members who make around that range roughly 170K to 250K as family income and some live a lavish lifestyle with lots of credit card debt, while others scrimp and save what they can and live quite frugally (even buying old beat-up cars to drive) and they all live somewhere in Georgia, some in the metro, some in the exurbs and beyond in the "sticks".

Of course, those in rural Georgia with such incomes have much more disposable income for many things than those who live in metro Atlanta. There are many variables to consider for this already mentioned, such as having minor children, large expensive home to maintain, or taking care of other relatives - (say assisted living for your parents), being self-employed and having to cover your own health insurance costs, etc.

IMHO, a 200K income in metro Atlanta is pretty comfortable lifestyle even with 2-3 minor children in private school.

What private schools are you talking about? Three children in private school in Atlanta costs over 60k a year! (In NYC it would be over 90k)

After taxes with good deductions you would be left with probably 150k-60k you are down to 90k.

[equinox63]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaLakeSearch

What private schools are you talking about? Three children in private school in Atlanta costs over 60k a year! (In NYC it would be over 90k)

After taxes with good deductions you would be left with probably 150k-60k you are down to 90k.

Are you saying that middle-class is different for a Manhattan resident or that Manhattan residents are prodominantly upper-middle class to upper class? By your estimate, is middle-class based on income, lifestyle, or a combination of the two. How does net worth play a role? If someone made $500,000, but was $1,000,000 in debt, would they be considered "poorer" than a person making $50,000 with a paid for home and car, no debt, and $100,000 in the bank?

[Onthemove2014]

Originally Posted by equinox63

Are you saying that middle-class is different for a Manhattan resident or that Manhattan residents are prodominantly upper-middle class to upper class? By your estimate, is middle-class based on income, lifestyle, or a combination of the two. How does net worth play a role? If someone made $500,000, but was $1,000,000 in debt, would they be considered "poorer" than a person making $50,000 with a paid for home and car, no debt, and $100,000 in the bank?

$1,000,000 debt is not so bad of you are bringing in 500k. That's well within how much house you can afford.

[rzzz]

Originally Posted by equinox63

If someone made $500,000, but was $1,000,000 in debt, would they be considered "poorer" than a person making $50,000 with a paid for home and car, no debt, and $100,000 in the bank?

No. The $500K person could save more than $100K in less than a year, and pay off the $1M debt in a few years.

[equinox63]

Originally Posted by rzzz

No. The $500K person could save more than $100K in less than a year, and pay off the $1M debt in a few years.

Duly noted. On another note, if that person lived in the most expensive zip code in the nation, would that then make them "middle class"? I guess what I'm getting at is some people say that middle class has little to do with money, income, assets and debt, but lifestyle and how well you live within your means. By that logic, anyone from those making $40,000 a year to those making millions a year can be middle class based on how they have chosen to spend (or use) their money...

[equinox63]

Would you consider Kirkwood a middle-class or working class neighborhood? What about Edgewood, East Lake, and East Atlanta? Is Grant Park considered solid middle class or perhaps upper-middle class? What do you think?

[rzzz]

Someone who makes $500K and lives in the most expensive zip code in the nation is rich. Just not as rich as the neighbors. People making millions a year are not "middle class."

[10 feet tall]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaLakeSearch

What private schools are you talking about? Three children in private school in Atlanta costs over 60k a year! (In NYC it would be over 90k)

After taxes with good deductions you would be left with probably 150k-60k you are down to 90k.

Agree. If you own your own business and make 200K you are bringing in 10,000 per month after taxes. Then you pay for family health insurance - subtract $1300, then pay $1500 per child in private school - subtract $4500. Now you are at $4200 left and you haven't even bought dental, auto, life or disability insurance. Then you've got to pay house payment/bills (conservative estimate of 2500) and groceries and (if you have one) a car payment. And you haven't yet saved a dime or payed for a vacation.

So yes, you need more than 200K per year to have 3 kids in private school in Atlanta and live "comfortably".