Why is Atlanta on such a decline? (Savannah, Macon: houses, theatres)

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by afonega1

That was the other point you missed or ignored.Why would it not be Illinois?Virginia?or Washington State?Or Oregon?
Georgia would beat those states without there main cities.Yet you CHOSE to select 2 of the poorest states in the union.
Cities like Augusta(medical center/school),Savannah(ports),Dalton(textile industry),Columbus and many other cities have industries and amenities that put those states shame.

I chose those states because Georgia is very similar to them outside of Atlanta. And Washington State? Last I checked, they had Seattle. Iliinois has Chicago.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

I don't agree with Mississippi, but without metro Atlanta, Georgia would definitely be more akin to Alabama or SC--the population and GDP would be pretty much identical, and geographically, demographically, and politically they would be more similar also.

IF (and big IF here) Atlanta had never happened, then Macon, Columbus, Augusta, Savannah or perhaps some unknown entity would have risen to take its place. Atlanta did not happen in a vacuum. The position of the state, the resources, the people... Georgia would have prospered without Atlanta. If Atlanta had not grown into the regional and national metropolis it is today, then the other cities would probably have grown bigger... Sort of like a North Carolina with several second tier sized cities.

Sometimes I wish Atlanta wasn't quite as large and Columbus, Augusta, Savannah, Macon, etc, etc, were twice as large as they are now.

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

Maybe you would get a little more respect if you would treat the rest of the state of Georgia with the respect it deserves. A little trip outside the metro to experience what a wonderful state the whole of Georgia is would do you a world of good.

Other the the mountains and Savannah, there's nothing else in Georgia. I went to Augusta nearly a week ago and it was nothing. I went to Macon a few months ago and it was nothing. Savannah blew me away, but that was it.

There's more beauty in states like Idaho and Montana then there is in Georgia.

[rzzz]

Originally Posted by afonega1

That was the other point you missed or ignored.Why would it not be Illinois?Virginia?or Washington State?Or Oregon?
Georgia would beat those states without there main cities.Yet you CHOSE to select 2 of the poorest states in the union.
Cities like Augusta(medical center/school),Savannah(ports),Dalton(textile industry),Columbus and many other cities have industries and amenities that put those states shame.

That's not really true. Most states rural areas and 2nd tier cities aren't all that great but all of the states you mentioned also have secondary cities that are at least in the league as Georgia, if not better. Virginia has 11 MSAs, I'm not even sure which one would even be the 'main city."

[afonega1]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

I don't agree with Mississippi, but without metro Atlanta, Georgia would definitely be more akin to Alabama or SC--the population and GDP would be pretty much identical, and since they are also Deep South states, geographically, demographically, culturally, and politically they would be more similar also.

GDP maybe so but there is a difference in how these states feel culturally although I admit its not a huge diiference.Still noticeable.
When was the last time AL/SC had a Black female Chief Justice of its highest court?There are 2 black justices on the court still today in GA.
Until recently we have also had one the first black state attorney generals and same for the Secretary of Labor.These are statewide elected positions.

Savannah and Athens have domestic partnership benefits.No city in AL or SC does.

Neither of those states have produce a President either.I think because they were way too far to the rights.Especially crazy racist.Georgia has had many Governor that were moderate and forward thinking in the last 40 years at least.

GA Governors:

Ernest Vandiver-Under Vandiver's administration, a United States District Court ordered the admission of two African-American students, Hamilton E. Holmes and Charlayne Hunter, to the University of Georgia. Despite his past support for segregation, Governor Vandiver did not resist the court order. He hence spared the University of Georgia from the national publicity associated with the opposition stands taken in 1962 by Governor Ross Barnett at the University of Mississippi and in 1963 Governor George C. Wallace at the University of Alabama. After the desegregation of the University of Georgia, Vandiver successfully urged the Georgia General Assembly to repeal a recently-passed law barring state funding to integrated schools. He also appointed banker John A. Sibley to head a state commission designed to prepare for the court-ordered school desegregation.
Vandiver efficiency in running state government permitted a building program and the expansion of state services without tax increases. The state expanded its ports, encouraged tourism, promoted business and industry, expanded vocational-technical education, and authorized programs for the mentally ill

And of course Jimmy Carter(he was a great Governor).

[gtcorndog]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

Nobody said ANYTHING about quality of life, however transit and density tells a lot about the health of the city and how desirable it is to live in that city.

What makes a city great? Are their great cities that aren't dense? Absolutely. So many people on here have such wiener envy of other cities that is is hilarious. Atlanta isn't NYC. It isn't Chicago. That is a good thing for somethings, a negative for others. I don't aspire for Atlanta to be like Chicago or NYC. I think Atlanta is great and has some great attributes that those cities can't come close to matching.

Last I checked, NYC was a healthy and respectable city around the world....same as Tokyo, Hong kong, London, etc. All dense, walkable cities.

Ever wonder why the densest cities are always at the top?

Respectable? Who are you trying to impress? Sounds like another example of your big city wiener envy.

Did those cities become great because they were dense or did they grow dense because they were great and the free market forced inward and upward growth? Hmmm...

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

IF (and big IF here) Atlanta had never happened, then Macon, Columbus, Augusta, Savannah or perhaps some unknown entity would have risen to take its place. Atlanta did not happen in a vacuum. The position of the state, the resources, the people... Georgia would have prospered without Atlanta. If Atlanta had not grown into the regional and national metropolis it is today, then the other cities would probably have grown bigger... Sort of like a North Carolina with several second tier sized cities.

Sometimes I wish Atlanta wasn't quite as large and Columbus, Augusta, Savannah, Macon, etc, etc, were twice as large as they are now.

I strongly disagree, and I believe this reflects an ignorance into the factors that made Atlanta what it is. Atlanta originally grew as a railroad hub due to geographical positioning; it was the connection between points further south and the Midwest. But after that, it was primarily progressive and visionary local civic and business leadership that made Atlanta into what it is, and the other cities in Georgia lacked this. Aside from federal government investment during WWII, every watershed moment in Atlanta's history was associated with local leaders. Atlanta became the state capital and got Tech because local leaders ponied up the money to make it happen. You had Henry Grady campaigning for a "New South" that brought industry to Atlanta. Local business leaders from the Chamber of Commerce embarked on the initial "Atlanta Forward" campaign that resulted in much new economic investment in the Atlanta area, and other successful similar campaigns followed. William Hartsfield was instrumental in the growth and development of the airport (which is the single most important factor in Atlanta's status today). Hartsfied and Robert Woodruff pushed for a business-friendly image for Atlanta during the Civil Rights Movement, in contrast to other surrounding cities, which sowed the seeds for Atlanta's popularity among African Americans, along with the leadership of Maynard Jackson. Ivan Allen, Jr. succeeded Hartsfield Bringing the Olympics to Atlanta was the brainchild of local leader Billy Payne. And on and on and on...

It wasn't a given that a metropolis the size of Atlanta would naturally happen. Atlanta had a geographic advantage to be the location where several railroad lines converged, but that in itself wouldn't have made it what it is today; there are plenty of places that only capitalized on their initial mode of trade and commerce and didn't progress much farther than that. Sheer vision, determination, and drive are largely responsible for the Atlanta of today. Furthermore, your argument implies that Atlanta's growth is somehow responsible for the second-tier cities not being as large as they are today and I see nothing that implies that.

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by afonega1

GDP maybe so but there is a difference in how these states feel culturally although I admit its not a huge diiference.Still noticeable.
When was the last time AL/SC had a Black female Chief Justice of its highest court?There are 2 black justices on the court still today in GA.
Until recently we have also had one the first black state attorney generals and same for the Secretary of Labor.These are statewide elected positions.

Savannah and Athens have domestic partnership benefits.No city in AL or SC does.

Neither of those states have produce a President either.I think because they were way too far to the rights.Especially crazy racist.Georgia has had many Governor that were moderate and forward thinking in the last 40 years at least.

GA Governors:

Again, GA sans Atlanta would be closest to neighboring states AL and SC in terms of population, economy, culture, politics, geography, demographics, etc. It's a completely legitimate comparison to make and those very minor points you made don't change things and I think you know that. No one is saying GA outside Atlanta is identical to SC and AL, but it's pretty clear they are the most similar.

And SC produced Andrew Jackson (although he was born on the border region of both Carolinas and there is some dispute as to which state he was actually born in, he himself claimed SC as the state of his birth).

[afonega1]

Originally Posted by rzzz

That's not really true. Most states rural areas and 2nd tier cities aren't all that great but all of the states you mentioned also have secondary cities that are at least in the league as Georgia, if not better. Virginia has 11 MSAs, I'm not even sure which one would even be the 'main city."

D.C. area would be VA main city.Georgia has at least 14 MSA's so what?

[afonega1]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

Again, GA sans Atlanta would be closest to neighboring states AL and SC in terms of population, economy, culture, politics, geography, demographics, etc. It's a completely legitimate comparison to make and those very minor points you made don't change things and I think you know that. No one is saying GA outside Atlanta is identical to SC and AL, but it's pretty clear they are the most similar.

And SC produced Andrew Jackson (although he was born on the border region of both Carolinas and there is some dispute as to which state he was actually born in, he himself claimed SC as the state of his birth).

I already admitted they are similar.But they have differences that in my opinion stand out enough to notice.
I could live in many places in GA and other than the more religious climate in those cities Id still be okay enough to do as I feel.
When Im in AL,MS,or SC I feel like its 10x as worse.Racism seems stronger, lower,education levels,I see crumbling bridges and roads,etc...Thats what im talking about.
Even in a hell hole like Milen GA where my mom grew up (also birthplace of Gov.Nathan Deal)is better than many of those cities in those other states as far as infrastructure and even racial harmony.