Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. (Atlanta: foreclosure, costs, most dangerous)

[Bullbear]

Originally Posted by AcidSnake

You make it sound so simple and easy. You forget the fact that those unions & regulations exist to prevent Americans like you & me from working in chaotically hazardous conditions & utilizing faulty products that would likely kill us. ...

Those days are way bygone. Unions are an anachrosim from another era. They had their day when they served an actual purpose. Now they just get in the way of productivity.

Originally Posted by AcidSnake

Those regulations also provide a baseline standard for basic workplace safety & hours worked. If it weren't for the huge battles that labor had in the past, I highly doubt that companies would on their own simply create benefits like vacation & sick days or worker's compensation for accidents on the jobs....

Corporations exist only on paper. People ARE corporations. People own and run them. Methinks one should have a little more faith in the integrity of the folks who are in charge.

Originally Posted by AcidSnake

You can drink that Von Mises Institute Kool-aid all you want, but I am pretty sure that you would rather deal with the workplace conditions here in the U.S. than in India or China. But maybe...you would rather that America becomes China or India, eh? It seems like that is what you are advocating.

The US is still the manufacturing capital of the world. Check your numbers. We make WAY more stuff than China. If production is brought back here for those things we dont make, look for huge price increases. Suddenly a cell phone becomes a luxury instead of a basic need.

Originally Posted by AcidSnake

I wonder when the day will come when you working-man conservatives who sing praises of the unfettered free market will one day find yourselves earning those Vietnam wages & drinking lead-contaminated water from the office water fountain while expecting not much more than a 5 minute break per day to pee in your company designated toilet-jar. That will be an interesting day, indeed...

Lawyers would love it! Can you imagine how much dough they would make? Lawyers make unions a useless redundancy. Unions must go the way of the dodo bird.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by Bullbear

Those days are way bygone. Unions are an anachrosim from another era. They had their day when they served an actual purpose. Now they just get in the way of productivity.

I strongly disagree. Some unions, like the pilots union, are one of the core reasons why air travel in this country is so safe. Take that away, and be ready for cost cutting in all sorts of places. You think many MBA's care about safety?

Corporations exist only on paper. People ARE corporations. People own and run them. Methinks one should have a little more faith in the integrity of the folks who are in charge.

After multiple decades of watching Microsoft, Wall Street, Oil Companies, and other corporate entities get away with a lot of illegal and unethical activities without regret in the name of profit, and seeing many of those corporations get little to no punishment for breaking the law, you seriously expect me to TRUST them???!?

Sorry, but ... are you insane?

Or just willfully blind?

[Bullbear]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

I strongly disagree. Some unions, like the pilots union, are one of the core reasons why air travel in this country is so safe. Take that away, and be ready for cost cutting in all sorts of places. You think many MBA's care about safety?


After multiple decades of watching Microsoft, Wall Street, Oil Companies, and other corporate entities get away with a lot of illegal and unethical activities without regret in the name of profit, and seeing many of those corporations get little to no punishment for breaking the law, you seriously expect me to TRUST them???!?

Sorry, but ... are you insane?

Or just willfully blind?

As if the union thugs are any better. They are much much much worse. Damn near vicious criminals, every one of them.

So you think its good business if airplanes drop out of the sky? That airlines "dont care about safety" because it costs extra? Its plainly obvious that airline safety is a key tenet in a healthy and profitable airline.

OOohh, the big boogey man "profit". Its only what built this country and motivated every single entrepreneur that ever lived.

Unions are a cancer. I dont do business with companies that are unionized, at least if at all possible. Have a friend who is a senior HR person at a plant for a Fortune 100 company. Job 1 for him is to keep the ^%$&# unions out. They make his life hell. They DESTROY worker productivity.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by Bullbear

As if the union thugs are any better. They are much much much worse. Damn near vicious criminals, every one of them.

I've worked with the pilots, flight dispatchers, and many other unionized workers at a major airline, and I have to strongly disagree in that context.

So you think its good business if airplanes drop out of the sky? That airlines "dont care about safety" because it costs extra? Its plainly obvious that airline safety is a key tenet in a healthy and profitable airline.

Why do you think the pilots unionized in the first place? Hint: it wasn't money.

OOohh, the big boogey man "profit". Its only what built this country and motivated every single entrepreneur that ever lived.

I have no issues at all with profit, as long as said profit is legally gained.

What I do have are issues with people who view the law and ethical conduct with disdain while they bleed everyone around them dry.

Is that a problem?

[Bullbear]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

I've worked with the pilots, flight dispatchers, and many other unionized workers at a major airline, and I have to strongly disagree in that context.


Why do you think the pilots unionized in the first place? Hint: it wasn't money.

Unions exist today when workers understand their skill sets are so non-differentiated they cannot compete effectively for wages unless as a collective unit. People dont fly an airline because of the workers. Air transportation is a commodity. Its why its never been a good business.

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

I have no issues at all with profit, as long as said profit is legally gained.

What I do have are issues with people who view the law and ethical conduct with disdain while they bleed everyone around them dry.

Is that a problem?

Riiggghhttt. Who said anything about allowing illegal profits? Criminals should go to jail/be punished. Everyone else should be able to collect as much profit as possible.

Its a classic big govt argument that they should determine what is a "fair" profit. Utter bunk. Profitability id solely a determinant of the market. Anything else is a form of socialism/communism and completely un-american.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by Bullbear

Unions exist today when workers understand their skill sets are so non-differentiated they cannot compete effectively for wages unless as a collective unit. People dont fly an airline because of the workers. Air transportation is a commodity. Its why its never been a good business.

Yup ... that's why the industry as a whole has been suffering since the feds deregulated its fare structure. It used to be a much more stable industry; now the ground is littered with the corpses of airlines.

Riiggghhttt. Who said anything about allowing illegal profits? Criminals should go to jail/be punished. Everyone else should be able to collect as much profit as possible.

Sure, that would happen in a perfect world.

So why doesn't the former happen in high-profile cases involving the CEOs of large corporations, bankers, and the like?

Isn't a slap on the wrist after being convicted of a crime the same as tacitly allowing said illegal actions?

Its a classic big govt argument that they should determine what is a "fair" profit. Utter bunk. Profitability id solely a determinant of the market. Anything else is a form of socialism/communism and completely un-american.

Interesting. So you believe the Sherman Anti-Trust Act and other similar laws are bunk?

[AcidSnake]

To think that if it were left up to SOME people on city-data, dedicated public servants like Officer Paul Philips & their families would be left to fend for themselves.

Officer Hailed As Hero On Verge Of Losing Home - News Story - WSB Atlanta

Just one more reason to me why I feel that this conservative laissez faire approach to labor is borderlining cruel & immoral treatment.

It's also why I feel that Dr. King's final mission before his passing to lift people up from poverty is as relevant now as it was over 40 years ago.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by AcidSnake

To think that if it were left up to SOME people on city-data, dedicated public servants like Officer Paul Philips & their families would be left to fend for themselves.

I truly hope that doesn't happen.

However, I don't want to see anyone else lose their home either. Are you suggesting there should be a different standard for people who are not public employees?


-----

*Weird footnote to that story, by the way. It says Officer Philips was shot by another police officer who got drunk on the way home from work and attacked a woman who was driving by.

[PKCorey]

Originally Posted by arjay57

*Weird footnote to that story, by the way. It says Officer Philips was shot by another police officer who got drunk on the way home from work and attacked a woman who was driving by.

Guess, you don't remember the case.

Former police officer sentenced to 60 years (http://www.gwinnettdailypost.com/home/headlines/98361164.html - broken link)

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by PKCorey

Guess, you don't remember the case.

Thanks, PK. I had forgotten that -- a strange tale.