Diary of a Tired Black Man.... (Atlanta, Martin: price, law, club)

[LadyRo]

Some of the reasons we do some of the things we do have roots in the tactics used on us during slavery and Jim Crow times. It's like collective memory that gets passed from generation to generation. We have some deep problems in the community, and they cannot be addressed and solved unless we get to the roots, and in some cases the roots extend back as far as slavery. It's like a generational poverty of mind.

The modern causes of the breakdown of the black family is the welfare system, or rather the way it was implemented. Case workers were intrusive back then. If a family was to get assistance the man had to leave, and he could not contribute to his family in any way. If he bought anything for the family, and the case worker, on her home visit, noticed it the value of the item(s) would be deducted from the next month's welfare check. And, if it happened too many times, the wife and kids would lose the benefits altogether. A man couldn't even spend the night or even have sex with his wife without taking the risk that the welfare benefits would be affected. No man could be in the home overnight, and Black women would routinely be asked when the last time they had sex was, for example. I know somebody that used to get asked that back in the 70s when they were on welfare for a while.

So, the impact of these policies was to render the black man useless and unneeded by his family. The gov't became daddy/husband and the black man, not having many avenues for making money could not compete. Whether it was massa or the overseer destroying the image of the black man, in front of black women and children, by torturing and/or beating them almost to death to send the message that black men couldn't protect or save black women or children, OR setting up a social "welfare" system in such a manner that black men were forced from their homes like I described above, it's the same thing. Same game, different name.

I didn't need a YouTube video to tell me this stuff either. I went to college for this, LOL.

Oh, before I forget... The people who make it work today have tapped into something that has been lost in our community. They need to share their knowledge.

Originally Posted by CaliDude1

Man, so much being said here. Most of the nonesense is being adequtely addressed. So I see no need to jump into ongoing conversations. I do want to clear up one myth. I read a couple of posts saying this all goes back to slavery. I take issue with that.

The number of black children born to married parents was very high (in the 80% range) from the Reconstruction period (1870s) all the way through the 1960s. Black relationships and the black family started breaking down three decades ago. This is a modern problem, not a slavery induced problem. By blaming it on slavery it gives us an excuse. I am not saying things were perfect back in the day. But folks back then made it work. Today, people (both men and women) just don't seem to want to make it work.

[StPaulEastSider]

Originally Posted by plessthanpointohfive

Dude, that's called "Marriage". Don't matter what color you are or if you're "saved", or an atheist. Correction...it's called "Marriage in America in Modern Times".

Been married 11 years. We're happier than ever. But if my husband ever thought it was a sign of disrespect that I speak my MIND then I'd think he was too insecure and too immature for ANY marriage.

[plessthanpointohfive]

I want to know what it means to be "feminate"?

I didn't know men got to define it for women.

[plessthanpointohfive]

Originally Posted by StPaulEastSider

And I've known other decent African guys, that was just the example which came to mind. I should not be harsh in my generalizations. I repent.

We're all guilty of that. You should see how I generalize Republicans...despite my extended family being nearly completely infested with them....

[LadyRo]

I'd like to know how I was arguing back and forth with anybody? Did you see all the bickering earlier in the thread? You didn't delete those posts, so why mine? What did I say that was so much worse than what anyone else said? That was unfair and uncalled for.

I'm out of here.

(to go watch Hulu)

[LadyRo]

Guys, I'm leaving City Data. Anyone wanting to get in touch with me can do so through my blog (http://www.rosalindonline.com - broken link). Take care and I wish everyone the best.

[StPaulEastSider]

Originally Posted by trwbrown

As I tell my husband often, the ego needs to go so that he can learn the right or a better way to handle things. He, like many other black men that I know, always want to be in charge..

I've also say something similiar to my husband : "this is not about your ego, this is about xyz" Methinks a black man w/ a hurt ego needs a lot of lovin' after the mess is worked out! Seriously.

++++

Spinning off from the other point you made in the above post, regarding black moms needing to raise their son's right...

I work in the inner-city, in da hood, and practically live in da hood as well. What I have been observing in this neck of the woods is black dads in the generational-poverty socio-economic group, when the dads are around, and if they are not doing time, they often are around, at least to some extent... anyways, I see these dads coddling their girls and flat out ignoring their boys. I mean, these guys are around for their DAUGHTERS but not for their sons!

I wonder why this is so... actually, my friend I talked about upthread actually pointed this phenomenon out to me, she sees it playing out amongst her own brothers, and she wondered why it is the black dads dote so much on their daughters while ignoring their sons? [I'm adding in the socio-economic distinction, because I do think it is more so a characteristic in this particular culture.]

I suggested to my friend.... perhaps, since the women are considered to be the providers - often the women control the section 8 voucher, food stamps, or they are the ones with the fulltime job - perhaps these dads feel compelled to dote on their daughter when the girls are young because when they get older these guys want to be able to go back to their daughters for support inbetween women, or after they can no longer find a woman to take them in.

I don't think this is even a conscious decision these guys are making, I think it's a "survival instinct" type of phenomenon - because the "generational poverty" culture operates almost entirely in the survival mode.

So, am I going to catch the heat for this one?

[CaliDude1]

Originally Posted by StPaulEastSider

So, am I going to catch the heat for this one?

No heat from me. I know from personal experience the relationship dynamic between a father and son vs. a father and daughter is VERY different. Sons have a different set of expectations for their fathers. From what I have both seen and experienced it seems girls embrace their absentee fathers a lot quicker than boys do. Boys can develop an anger toward their fathers that does not easily pass. Also, boys do not have the faculties to express their emotions like girls do. Many girls can show love to their father while still be upset at his behavior. Boys on the other hand manifest their anger very differently. I know, I was that angry boy at one time.

I believe part of the reason many of those fathers you speak of are not coddling their sons is because their sons do not make it as easy as their daughters do. Also, I would wager those men really do want to embrace their sons. It's natural. However, because fathers are men they better understand the damage they do to their sons. I would bet that most absentee fathers don't believe their actions are as detrimental to their daughters as it is to their sons (even though they are). Readily understanding their negative impact on their sons probably leads to shame and embarrassment that gets in the way of them connecting with their sons. I could write a book on this, but I think you get my point.

[StPaulEastSider]

Originally Posted by CaliDude1

No heat from me. I know from personal experience the relationship dynamic between a father and son vs. a father and daughter is VERY different. Sons have a different set of expectations for their fathers. From what I have both seen and experienced it seems girls embrace their absentee fathers a lot quicker than boys will. Boys can develop an anger toward their fathers that does not easily pass. I know, I was that angry boy at one time.

I believe part of the reason many of those fathers you speak of are not coddling their sons is because their sons are not making it easy for them. I could write a book on this, but I am sure you get my point.

Good point, I see the truth in this.

But I also have observed this phenomenon beginning when the children are very young. My friend's brother is always picking up his daughter from her mother's house and taking her with him when he goes visiting friends and family. His sons? Never. All these kids are under 7 years old. The kids are with different moms, and the girl is with his current girlfriend - but when the boys mother was his current girlfriend, and he only had the two boys, he never took the boys with him places.

It's not just with this one guy we've observed this happening, he just happens to be the one who triggered the conversation between my friend and myself.

But in the cases of some of the other father/child relationships we discussed in that same conversation - yeah, the kids are older and I can imagine there is the dynamic you described in play btwn the fathers and sons.

[CaliDude1]

Originally Posted by StPaulEastSider

Good point, I see the truth in this.

But I also have observed this phenomenon beginning when the children are very young. My friend's brother is always picking up his daughter from her mother's house and taking her with him when he goes visiting friends and family. His sons? Never. All these kids are under 7 years old. The kids are with different moms, and the girl is with his current girlfriend - but when the boys mother was his current girlfriend, and he only had the two boys, he never took the boys with him places.

It's not just with this one guy we've observed this happening, he just happens to be the one who triggered the conversation between my friend and myself.

But in the cases of some of the other father/child relationships we discussed in that same conversation - yeah, the kids are older and I can imagine there is the dynamic you described in play btwn the fathers and sons.

Each situation is unique. I don't want to generalize. There are specifics to each situation that we may not know. Really its too bad to hear that. I could never do anything like that, but that's me. These guys don't realize it, but that stuff comes back on you when they grow up.