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Old 05-30-2009, 07:57 AM
 
1,581 posts, read 2,171,247 times
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^^ I was going to say that I wonder if this poster feels "entitled" for the government to build, and maintain adequate roads wherever he or she lives.

Last edited by J2rescue; 05-30-2009 at 08:05 AM..
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Old 05-31-2009, 02:38 AM
 
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,468 posts, read 14,901,686 times
Reputation: 7263
This is sad, but necessary. MARTA and Atlanta will weather the current storm and things will be even better when it's over
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Old 06-13-2009, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Roswell
2 posts, read 2,747 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxjay View Post
Raise the taxes or charge a road tax to all people with cars. Install more tolls.
Raising taxes is almost NEVER the right answer. The problem is spending the tax dollars already being raised, correctly.
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Old 06-13-2009, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
608 posts, read 1,702,657 times
Reputation: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127 View Post
They should be charging for parking anyway at all times in all lots. Even at $5 per day for all cars, it would be a lot cheaper than downtown parking lots, and even with a $2 fare on top of it each way, it's a lot cheaper and less hassle than driving.

These problems will just keep coming back until on the State level there are more progressive thinkers who allow the State to contribute funds, and, there's a complete restaffing at MARTA headquarters.
That would essentially kill MARTA.

The problem isn't MARTA. The problem is that the politicians believe MARTA is supposed to be self-sustaining when competiting against heavily subsidized road transportation.

The more "cutbacks" there are --- the less viable MARTA becomes.

The way the politicians approach public transportation would be akin to building the Interstate system so that it only consisted of 8 mile stretches of road randomly dispersed across the nation and completely unintegrated. Then every little unintegrated segment had a $2 toll that kept getting raised as fewer people used it. Hardly anyone would use the "Interstate system" if that were the case.

For some reason, American policymakers understood that the road system had to be developed on a mass level to work --- they don't seem to grasp this with public transit.

Of course, that "some reason" was heavily lobbying by the automobile industry, which also went out of its way to dismantle the old public transit infrastructure.

Last edited by DiderotsGhost; 06-13-2009 at 09:34 AM..
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Old 06-13-2009, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
608 posts, read 1,702,657 times
Reputation: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by J2rescue View Post
^^ I was going to say that I wonder if this poster feels "entitled" for the government to build, and maintain adequate roads wherever he or she lives.
Roads are different. Roads are guaranteed by the Constitution! But public transit --- that's SOCIALISM!!!

People in this country kill me. So many of these people support heavily subsidized automobile transportation, but act like it's the end of the world if they build a public transit system.

The haters of public transit would have a fit if the government started charging usage fees and raising the gas tax so that the real costs of the automobile travel were somewhat reflected. Even then, they would still be passing on the external costs (pollution, energy efficiency resulting from sprawl, etc.) to the taxpayers.
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Old 06-13-2009, 09:21 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
608 posts, read 1,702,657 times
Reputation: 455
Just for the record, could someone tell me how MARTA is "mismanaged"? I've heard the claim half a gazillion times. In those half-a-gazillion times, I've never heard a single person elaborate as to why it's "mismanaged". I'm not saying they're wrong --- I'm just curious about this. Is this just a case of mass blind criticism? Or is there really some substance to it?

People always say the same thing about Amtrak. Yet, Amtrak has to travel on the same rail lines as commercial carriers and has to compete against air travel that is subsidized in many areas of the nation*. Moreover, there's virtually no high-speed rail --- which would probably be more cost efficient over the long-term since labor costs would be reduced.


* Air travel is completely unviable in smaller markets, yet the government feels the need to prop it up over offer more cost-effective and sustainable alternatives. If the real costs were reflected in ticket prices, ticket prices would be massive and there would be extremely limited service from smaller markets.
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Old 06-13-2009, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
608 posts, read 1,702,657 times
Reputation: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantadj View Post
Raising taxes is almost NEVER the right answer. The problem is spending the tax dollars already being raised, correctly.
No, really, that's not "the problem." The problem is that the tax dollars being used to fund the automobile transportation system are completely insufficient to cover the expenses. So, instead, the road system gets massively subsidized from general taxes and there's massive shortfalls in road/highway funding.

But the Feds come along and bail everyone out so that this completely unsustainble road system can keep chugging along --- rather than investing in public transit systems that would be viable for the next 100 years.
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Old 06-13-2009, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
15,479 posts, read 15,505,565 times
Reputation: 28452
Don't any of you move to Boston! The T has zoned pricing and can be as little as $1.70 up to $7.75. So your $2 is a bargain! And don't ask about parking which ranges from $3 at the ferry up to $7 at the subway. The ferry one is entertaining since you have to drive through the city to get there.

Haven't you noticed the price of everything is going up? The cost of fuel is skyrocketing back up and it's leading to increases. The economy is still in the toilet.....that's just screwing with so many things in my life. It's just getting annoying now. I'm sure it's screwing with pretty much everyone's life, too. It killed my move out of the northeast. So now I must freeze all winter and be taxed to death while I wait for this situation to improve. And the taxes have only gotten worse. I'm waiting for a tax on hiccups and breathing. That's the only thing not taxed at this point.
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Old 06-13-2009, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
608 posts, read 1,702,657 times
Reputation: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss20ts View Post
Don't any of you move to Boston! The T has zoned pricing and can be as little as $1.70 up to $7.75. So your $2 is a bargain! And don't ask about parking which ranges from $3 at the ferry up to $7 at the subway. The ferry one is entertaining since you have to drive through the city to get there.

Haven't you noticed the price of everything is going up? The cost of fuel is skyrocketing back up and it's leading to increases. The economy is still in the toilet.....that's just screwing with so many things in my life. It's just getting annoying now. I'm sure it's screwing with pretty much everyone's life, too. It killed my move out of the northeast. So now I must freeze all winter and be taxed to death while I wait for this situation to improve. And the taxes have only gotten worse. I'm waiting for a tax on hiccups and breathing. That's the only thing not taxed at this point.
I don't think I'd mind taxes if I knew where the taxes were going and they were being utilized effectively, but that's rarely the case.

We pay general income taxes that basically go everywhere. No one knows why taxes are so high and services are so low. There's waste everywhere. No one can really see what's going on without doing huge amounts of digging.

It's one reason why I'd rather just see the highway system shift to usage fees. That way, if I'm using it, I know why I'm paying taxes. If I'm not using it, I'm not paying taxes.
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Old 06-13-2009, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
15,479 posts, read 15,505,565 times
Reputation: 28452
[quote=JakilaTheHunI don't think I'd mind taxes if I knew where the taxes were going and they were being utilized effectively, but that's rarely the case.

We pay general income taxes that basically go everywhere. No one knows why taxes are so high and services are so low. There's waste everywhere. No one can really see what's going on without doing huge amounts of digging.

It's one reason why I'd rather just see the highway system shift to usage fees. That way, if I'm using it, I know why I'm paying taxes. If I'm not using it, I'm not paying taxes.[/QUOTE]

Your taxes ARE going to things you CAN'T see! Tons of crap is government subsidized. Welfare and Medicaid (or whatever it's called there) is paid for by the government. Schools are paid for by the government. All of those government employees get paid. The buildings have utilities and the buildings have to be paid.

Then there's things you can see such as roads. Sorry, but roads in the South overall are a whole lot freaking better than in the North. Our roads SUCK! You don't get the lovely weather damage we get every year. Nothing like the cla-clump noise your car makes every 8 feet over frost heaves that have permanently wreaked the road.

Sure some tax dollars are wasted - that happens everywhere. If you want to know what the money is spent on, read the state, county, city, and school budgets. It's all public info.

And it's hilarious to hear you guys say you're taxes are high! Come to NY.....we'll show you want taxes are! Soon we'll be taxing that bottle of water you're drinking. We like to create fees which are really a tax, but we can't call them that because it sounds bad. Sadly, it's cheaper to by some trout in the grocery store than a fishing permit is unless you do a ton of fishing and then there's daily limits so you're screwed anyway.
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