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Old 08-14-2009, 10:49 AM
 
2,685 posts, read 6,028,760 times
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Thats what makes intown great. You can choose to live in a SFH, a lowrise, a townhouse or a highrise condo with views. Midtown alone offers all those options.
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Old 08-14-2009, 11:31 AM
 
57 posts, read 143,028 times
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Why is there so much talk of Manhattan? This plan is nowhere near as dense as anything found in Manhattan! No one is suggesting this intersection become the next Time Square. Sheesh, if anything, this plan IS more like Savannah or Portland, perhaps minus the 8 story building. Let's not exaggerate.
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,573 posts, read 5,288,552 times
Reputation: 2396
Default Developers. Ugh....

Quote:
Originally Posted by south-to-west View Post
One of the problems with real estate development across the US in general is that developers go all-out dense--with 8-40 story highrises--or don't go dense at all. There is a place for highrises, but too many highrises causes a neighborhood to lose its human scale. For example, the density that you see in many European cities is that of buildings that are no more than 5 stories tall--and often times only 3-4 stories tall.

Two excellent examples of density done right in Atlanta are:
  • Downtown Decatur: It's a very walkable environment with a density of condo buildings that are under 8 stories tall. The taller buildings--both condo and commercial--provide a perfect contrast to the surrounding single-family neighborhoods.

  • Inman Park Village: Highland Avenue between Glen Iris and Elizabeth is another excellent example of density done right. There is a significant concentration of condominiums and apartements that are no more than 4 stories tall. Again, this concentration of multistory development provides a great contrast to the surrounding single-family neighborhoods.
I hope for the day that developers, as well as everyone else in general, realize that it's possible to provide an adequate supply of multifamily units in a dense, but low-rise scale that's more aesthetically sustainable.
Great post. My problem with a lot of these developers in the south is that they always seem to go overboard. They clear cut everything, build huge monstrous live/work areas that are mostly geared towards cars and then the existing neighborhoods surrrounding areas experiences even MORE unplanned traffic jams. There needs to be a middle ground somewhere, between planning properly for future growth and keeping in mind the needs of the people who are already living in the area.

Then there is the issue of the the unoccupied condominiums, houses and unfinished neighborhoods. Are there no standards at all around here? It seems like a lot of the metro atlantan governments like Gwinnett, Atlanta, Dekalb and others simply hand out building permits like cotton candy and let the companies like Sembler & Hardin Construcion build where and how they darn well please.

What a mess...
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Old 08-15-2009, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,887 posts, read 17,136,721 times
Reputation: 3701
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
Great post. My problem with a lot of these developers in the south is that they always seem to go overboard. They clear cut everything, build huge monstrous live/work areas that are mostly geared towards cars and then the existing neighborhoods surrrounding areas experiences even MORE unplanned traffic jams. There needs to be a middle ground somewhere, between planning properly for future growth and keeping in mind the needs of the people who are already living in the area.
I think that was the original point. Existing property owners should have a say as to what gets built next to them and in the same neighborhood, especially where city services and infrastructure will not be keeping pace. When a big condo development gets built, does a new fire house open, does a new police precinct open with additional cops, and does the road get widened? Of course not. One 8 story condo building can double the number of units and neighborhood residents literally overnight.
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Old 08-15-2009, 09:09 AM
 
Location: St Simons Island, GA
23,364 posts, read 43,832,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
I agree with you. Didn't mean to imply that it was binary. In fact, that's exactly what we need. If you look at NYC even, most buildings are brownstones and buildings 6 stories or below.

Here in Atlanta, townhomes and Atlantic Station type mixed use is a great solution. Once my kids leave home, that's exactly the type of development my wife and I would love to live in.
IMO the townhouses in AS are a textbook example of poor planning and design. Overpriced, cheaply built, and no imagination employed in the creation of said community whatsoever. I toured them a couple of years ago and thought they were dreadful.
It's a shame they didn't create something in the AS townhouse community along the lines of Glenwood Park. That intown development hits it out of the park.

www.glenwoodpark.com
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Old 08-15-2009, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,731 posts, read 14,306,643 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovinDecatur View Post
IMO the townhouses in AS are a textbook example of poor planning and design. Overpriced, cheaply built, and no imagination employed in the creation of said community whatsoever. I toured them a couple of years ago and thought they were dreadful.
It's a shame they didn't create something in the AS townhouse community along the lines of Glenwood Park. That intown development hits it out of the park.

www.glenwoodpark.com
I completely agree, Lovin. The new townhouses on the South side of 16th street are beautiful, but the originals are absolutely hideous.

They look exactly like the ugly rows you see at I-85 & 316. Yuck.
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Old 08-15-2009, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,887 posts, read 17,136,721 times
Reputation: 3701
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovinDecatur View Post
IMO the townhouses in AS are a textbook example of poor planning and design. Overpriced, cheaply built, and no imagination employed in the creation of said community whatsoever.
Interesting. Haven't actually looked inside, but I still think some kind of similar type community would be interesting to us. Was never planning to move to Atlantic Station per se, but the concept is interesting.
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Old 08-16-2009, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Sandy Springs, Georgia
256 posts, read 748,298 times
Reputation: 132
On the one hand, I agree with this sentiment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfre81 View Post
In Sun Belt cities, people are scared of "becoming Manhattan." There is only one Manhattan. Not even San Francisco or Boston are on that level. But down south, if there are more than 5,000 in a square mile it's Manhattanization. Urbanity's a new concept in the south, and Southerners aren't always receptive to change. They'll get used to it in time, and Atlanta will urbanize in time. Just like Houston, Dallas or Charlotte.

The space is there for people who want the urban experience to have it, and for those who want the SFH/suburban experience to have it. Everyone can get what they want. It's not a bad thing.
There are sooo many historic single-family neighborhoods in Atlanta that we can make the downtown-midtown core very dense and "urban" and not lose Atlanta's characteristic wooded neighborhoods. Virginia-Highland should remain a beautiful, wooded low-density neighborhood, and midtown should be developed into a vibrant, high-density city with less open space outside of parks, like all central business districts should be. Just like jfre81 said, everyone can get what the want. The people who want high-density urbanity will have downtown and midtown and people who like historic, low-density charm will have all the surrounding neighborhoods, within walking distance to the city.

It makes perfect sense to me. The area in question seems to be closer to midtown than Virginia-Highland. There are dozens of historic neighborhoods just like this one that no one is laying a finger on.

Speaking of the Beltline, I think it could be a good boundary between the dense, "urban" parts of the city and the historic, single-family neighborhoods. So everything inside the Beltline will be not as dense as Manhattan, (The 100,000 people / sq mile of Manhattan is a bit much...) but as dense as other cities with vibrant urban cores (maybe 10,000 people / sq mile and eventually even 15,000 people / sq mile).

I did understand the other side better as I was reading this, though:

Quote:
Originally Posted by south-to-west View Post
One of the problems with real estate development across the US in general is that developers go all-out dense--with 8-40 story highrises--or don't go dense at all. There is a place for highrises, but too many highrises causes a neighborhood to lose its human scale. For example, the density that you see in many European cities is that of buildings that are no more than 5 stories tall--and often times only 3-4 stories tall.

Two excellent examples of density done right in Atlanta are:
  • Downtown Decatur: It's a very walkable environment with a density of condo buildings that are under 8 stories tall. The taller buildings--both condo and commercial--provide a perfect contrast to the surrounding single-family neighborhoods.
  • Inman Park Village: Highland Avenue between Glen Iris and Elizabeth is another excellent example of density done right. There is a significant concentration of condominiums and apartements that are no more than 4 stories tall. Again, this concentration of multistory development provides a great contrast to the surrounding single-family neighborhoods.

I hope for the day that developers, as well as everyone else in general, realize that it's possible to provide an adequate supply of multifamily units in a dense, but low-rise scale that's more aesthetically sustainable.
I never really thought about this. I think you're right, though, developers do tend to have this all-or-nothing mentality.

I can see why these people are upset about 10-story highrises, but I think sensible high-density development like you talked about (4-5 stories) is inevitable and would be very good for this area. Opposing that is pretty unreasonable, IMO.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 08-17-2009, 03:35 AM
 
360 posts, read 1,008,033 times
Reputation: 93
I don't think density is an inherently good thing or an inherently bad thing. As others have mentioned, it's all in how it's done. Downtown Decatur is one of my favorite places, and I guess one could say it's fairly dense. Pine Lake is another favorite, and it feels like I'm in a little getaway town near the mountains. They are very different, but they also both share a vibe I can't put my finger on that I like a lot.

Conversely, there are some dense places in Atlanta I want no part of, and there are some 'burbs / rural-ish areas I've seen I'd want no part of either.

So I don't think density is a monster to be avoided or the answer to all our prayers. It's all in the execution.
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