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Old 09-09-2009, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Norman, OK
3,478 posts, read 7,227,596 times
Reputation: 1200

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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
There is an environmental savings in the fact that less oil needs to be imported and alcohol burns cleaner. To me, this is a non-issue.
Unfortunately the production of corn ethanol (which is used now) is actually high carbon based and negates any environmental savings in CO2 world. That is one reason why corn ethanol cannot and will not take off as the fuel of the future.

Cellulosic ethanol, on the other hand, THAT has wondrous potentials for environmental and economic savings.

 
Old 09-09-2009, 10:23 AM
 
2,531 posts, read 6,224,855 times
Reputation: 1315
Now that you mention RaceTrac, it does seem that my gas mileage is different when I filler up there.

What about QuikTrip?
 
Old 09-09-2009, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,887 posts, read 17,123,860 times
Reputation: 3701
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxjay View Post
Unfortunately the production of corn ethanol (which is used now) is actually high carbon based and negates any environmental savings in CO2 world. That is one reason why corn ethanol cannot and will not take off as the fuel of the future.

Cellulosic ethanol, on the other hand, THAT has wondrous potentials for environmental and economic savings.
You obviously understand more of the science than I do, but at a minimum a gallon of ethanol is a gallon less of foreign oil being imported, no?
 
Old 09-09-2009, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,887 posts, read 17,123,860 times
Reputation: 3701
Quote:
Originally Posted by grindin View Post
Now that you mention RaceTrac, it does seem that my gas mileage is different when I filler up there.

What about QuikTrip?
If there was water in the gasoline, it would separate in the truck and in the tank. You wouldn't get a mixture pumped into your car.

Even if there was some plot and the water made its way into your car, it would be quickly evident as cars experience the effect of all this water in the fuel system.

This is rumor folks...unsubstantiated and almost certainly false. I fill up at Racetrack on occasion and have never observed any difference in fuel economy or performance, and I would have noticed it with my vehicle which requires premium fuel and higher octane.

Again...what is the proof or basis of these rumors beyond anecdotes and conspiracy theories? If I'm naive and there is proof, please enlighten me. Have they been investigated before for doing this?
 
Old 09-09-2009, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,731 posts, read 14,294,429 times
Reputation: 2774
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxjay View Post
Unfortunately the production of corn ethanol (which is used now) is actually high carbon based and negates any environmental savings in CO2 world. That is one reason why corn ethanol cannot and will not take off as the fuel of the future.

Cellulosic ethanol, on the other hand, THAT has wondrous potentials for environmental and economic savings.
wxjay - Would sugar cane fall under cellulosic ethanol?

I saw a very cool special on CNN that focused on Brazil's use of sugar cane ethanol. It's cheap, it's clean and the production process yields a clean-burning industrial grade waste that it being used in power plants there.

It was a great special - hopefully they will run it again.
 
Old 09-09-2009, 10:42 AM
 
2,531 posts, read 6,224,855 times
Reputation: 1315
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
If there was water in the gasoline, it would separate in the truck and in the tank. You wouldn't get a mixture pumped into your car.

Even if there was some plot and the water made its way into your car, it would be quickly evident as cars experience the effect of all this water in the fuel system.

This is rumor folks...unsubstantiated and almost certainly false. I fill up at Racetrack on occasion and have never observed any difference in fuel economy or performance, and I would have noticed it with my vehicle which requires premium fuel and higher octane.

Again...what is the proof or basis of these rumors beyond anecdotes and conspiracy theories? If I'm naive and there is proof, please enlighten me. Have they been investigated before for doing this?

Hey, I wasn't the one who said that RaceTrac put water in their gas! I seriously doubt that company would do something so dangerous. Believe me, if that was true, a lot of cars would be on the side of the road, and this would be a major news story, since RaceTrac is a local company.

I will say that I see *slight* differences in fuel economy, but not enough to keep me from going there ever again. People say the same thing about WalMart's gas, but I've pumped there enough to see that isn't true (for my car at least).
 
Old 09-09-2009, 11:15 AM
 
2,685 posts, read 6,024,939 times
Reputation: 952
That was an interesting show. Almost all their cars are flex cars whereas its rare to find a flex car here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnatl View Post
wxjay - Would sugar cane fall under cellulosic ethanol?

I saw a very cool special on CNN that focused on Brazil's use of sugar cane ethanol. It's cheap, it's clean and the production process yields a clean-burning industrial grade waste that it being used in power plants there.

It was a great special - hopefully they will run it again.
 
Old 09-09-2009, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Norman, OK
3,478 posts, read 7,227,596 times
Reputation: 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
You obviously understand more of the science than I do, but at a minimum a gallon of ethanol is a gallon less of foreign oil being imported, no?
That's the point - it's not for a number of reasons. One is the energy content in a gallon of ethanol is not the same as that in a gallon of oil. Secondly, fossil fuels (like oil/petroleum) are needed to produce ethanol, and in fact the "carbon-footprint" from production of ethanol is actually more.
 
Old 09-09-2009, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Norman, OK
3,478 posts, read 7,227,596 times
Reputation: 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnatl View Post
wxjay - Would sugar cane fall under cellulosic ethanol?
No, cellulosic ethanol is ethanol made from wood, switchgrass, and other non-edible portions of plants. The benefit with using cellulosic ethanol is that, gallon for gallon, the reduction in GHG emissions is anywhere from 85% - 98% vs. oil and coal. It is also affordable, abundant, and quickly able to be used in our vehicles for little overhaul cost.

This is our best bet to reduce costs and reduce imports of foreign oil in this country.
 
Old 09-09-2009, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Dacula, Ga
86 posts, read 496,185 times
Reputation: 80
I've never assumed or accused any gas provider of adding water to their gas, but the proof is in the pudding on my gas mileage. I've done back to back tests, on 3 different cars. That makes it physically impossible to be a fluke.

Further more, I went into Ingles today to get a sandwich. I even asked some employees their thoughts on the data I'd gathered, and the response was pretty shocking. Everyone knew exactly what I was talking about, said they've experienced similar results, and no longer use their own gas either.

I won't get into an alternative fuel discussion, cause that's not what I started this thread for. Just don't use Ingles gas, your car will thank you.
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