Why does Atlanta get a bum rap on "sprawl?" (Decatur: how much, hotel)

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

Yes, I am suggesting that. It's not perfect and there is room for improvement, but I am curious as to what you mean by these "gaps".

As for the safeness argument, I have walked each segment of that street from Garnett to Brookhaven several times. I never had any trouble aside from the occasional panhandling bum.

By gaps I mean anything that breaks up the urbanity such as parking lots, buildings with blank walls with no street interaction, or unusable "open space".

The safeness I was referring to is the perception of safety from passing vehicles. A streetscape design that separates the pedestrian from passing traffic (or at least has slow moving traffic) is a requirement for most people to find walking enjoyable in an urban environment. This is why on-street parking is being implemented in the city wherever possible - to provide a mental buffer from passing traffic.

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

By gaps I mean anything that breaks up the urbanity such as parking lots, buildings with blank walls with no street interaction, or unusable "open space".

Any city is going to have that. On Peachtree specifically though a lot of those parking lots are in front of retail buildings.

Originally Posted by J2rescue

The safeness I was referring to is the perception of safety from passing vehicles. A streetscape design that separates the pedestrian from passing traffic (or at least has slow moving traffic) is a requirement for most people to find walking enjoyable in an urban environment. This is why on-street parking is being implemented in the city wherever possible - to provide a mental buffer from passing traffic.

Perception is in the eye of the beholder. Growing up in the city I pay zero attention to the cars passing by as I walk down the street. Also, I live in Buckhead not far from the Dick's/Filene's/Target/Publix mega building. Along the sidewalks around that block, this very type of buffer exsists and it's annoying as pi--. If I wanted to walk across the street to Phipps after grabbing from the store there, my only choice is to either end of the very large block.

Granted, the buffer is pretty, but I don't see it as being a cure for anything. But don't get me wrong, I think the city should continue to move forward with more streetscape improvements like this.

One thing that could really go a long way in making things easier for people though are pedestrian tunnels. If it were I designing it they would go in at Peachtree and Lenox, Peachtree at Piedmont Hospital, Peachtree at 14th, and Peachtree at 10th.

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by waronxmas

Any city is going to have that. On Peachtree specifically though a lot of those parking lots are in front of retail buildings.



Perception is in the eye of the beholder. Growing up in the city I pay zero attention to the cars passing by as I walk down the street. Also, I live in Buckhead not far from the Dick's/Filene's/Target/Publix mega building. Along the sidewalks around that block, this very type of buffer exsists and it's annoying as pi--. If I wanted to walk across the street to Phipps after grabbing from the store there, my only choice is to either end of the very large block.

Granted, the buffer is pretty, but I don't see it as being a cure for anything. But don't get me wrong, I think the city should continue to move forward with more streetscape improvements like this.

One thing that could really go a long way in making things easier for people though are pedestrian tunnels. If it were I designing it they would go in at Peachtree and Lenox, Peachtree at Piedmont Hospital, Peachtree at 14th, and Peachtree at 10th.

Very large blocks is also a detriment to walk-ability and that is the problem in that case. Parking lots are terrible for walk-ability.

Look its great that you personally enjoy walking all over the city. But the things I'm talking about are features that have been proven to make walking enjoyable for most people which do not exist in enough quantity or density in Atlanta. All you have to do is look at a city that you love to visit and notice the characteristics of the streetscape the next time you're there.

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

By gaps I mean anything that breaks up the urbanity such as parking lots, buildings with blank walls with no street interaction, or unusable "open space".

The safeness I was referring to is the perception of safety from passing vehicles. A streetscape design that separates the pedestrian from passing traffic (or at least has slow moving traffic) is a requirement for most people to find walking enjoyable in an urban environment. This is why on-street parking is being implemented in the city wherever possible - to provide a mental buffer from passing traffic.

If that is your definition, then like waronxmas I would like to know where these gaps are...between Downtown and Buckhead, the only example I can think of is SoNo (between Ralph McGill and North Aves); otherwise, it feels quite urban.

[newat6]

Atlanta has an linear growth pattern. I get that. We have good chunks of urbansim. I get that. The only thing missing is a way to connect these areas. Busses don't cut it. It's too far to walk. We need streetcars!

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by newat6

Atlanta has an linear growth pattern. I get that. We have good chunks of urbansim. I get that. The only thing missing is a way to connect these areas. Busses don't cut it. It's too far to walk. We need streetcars!

The streetcars are coming back on Peachtree and possibly on Piedmont and Ponce. The Beltline will go a long way to resolving the problem in the rest of the city.

[J2rescue]

Originally Posted by LovinDecatur

If that is your definition, then like waronxmas I would like to know where these gaps are...between Downtown and Buckhead, the only example I can think of is SoNo (between Ralph McGill and North Aves); otherwise, it feels quite urban.

Its not my definition. I didn't invent cities or how they were developed. Atlanta was also developed this way at one point and if even half of Downtown and Midtown looked like this, you would probably not hear people say Atlanta is nothing but suburbs.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/winecoff/3512927265/ (broken link)

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

Its not my definition. I didn't invent cities or how they were developed. Atlanta was also developed this way at one point and if even half of Downtown and Midtown looked like this, you would probably not hear people say Atlanta is nothing but suburbs.

Peachtree Street Downtown Atlanta on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/winecoff/3512927265/ - broken link)

This doesn't really answer my question. In my mind's eye, I'm traveling up Peachtree through Downtown, Midtown and Buckhead, and I'm trying to identify areas that you describe as 'parking lots, buildings with blank walls with no street interaction, or unusable open space'. Aside from SoNo (which is dreadful, but could be fixed), I can't think of any. Please to enlighten.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by J2rescue

...if even half of Downtown and Midtown looked like this, you would probably not hear people say Atlanta is nothing but suburbs.

I know most people probably disagree with me, but I say "who cares?" what people say? People here care much more what others say and think about the area than many areas.

Anecdote from this Friday night....this happened to me at SEA-TAC airport in Seattle as I was waiting for a flight to Atlanta. A Canadian who lives in Vancouver, BC and I struck up a conversation waiting for the flight. His perception of Atlanta was that it was a great place but his concern was the crime. He was very scared about staying in a hotel downtown near the CNN Center. To me, that's the real problem that Atlanta should be laser focused on....crime and panhandling....not how many buildings per square foot do you need to be considered a "real city."

[Iconographer]

Originally Posted by neil0311

I know most people probably disagree with me, but I say "who cares?" what people say? People here care much more what others say and think about the area than many areas.

Anecdote from this Friday night....this happened to me at SEA-TAC airport in Seattle as I was waiting for a flight to Atlanta. A Canadian who lives in Vancouver, BC and I struck up a conversation waiting for the flight. His perception of Atlanta was that it was a great place but his concern was the crime. He was very scared about staying in a hotel downtown near the CNN Center. To me, that's the real problem that Atlanta should be laser focused on....crime and panhandling....not how many buildings per square foot do you need to be considered a "real city."

Too true. A friend from Orlando is coming up this weekend and blithely booked a room at the Downtown Hilton on Courtland without consulting me. I'm sincerely concerned about her staying there and told her so. It's not that other cities have sketchy areas in their downtowns, but how many in the US have upscale hotels plopped down in the middle of them? Her naivete about Atlanta led her to believe 'none'.