Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-10-2010, 11:32 PM
 
Location: West Cobb (formerly Vinings)
3,615 posts, read 7,749,946 times
Reputation: 830

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
Wow....don't even know where to start with a rant like that. Maybe you'd feel better living in a high tax, high corruption state like RI, NY, NJ, MA, IL, or CA? You can get a bunch of big city, enlightened liberals who will take your money, the mob's money, and spend it all on pet projects and themselves. Would that suit your tastes better?

...pretty much all the great transit systems were built before 1960
When I left Connecticut in '05, I thought Hartford and the state was never going to get its act together. Now with the New Haven to Middletown to Hartford to Enfield to Springfield line, Hartford is even about to do more than Atlanta has done in the last 20 years and the state of Connecticut will pretty much have statewide rail and connections to Boston and NYC throughout most of the state (about the size of metro Atlanta in area). It's a sad day for Atlanta getting surpassed by Connecticut, which is almost completely suburban.

As for corruption: The good 'ol boy community has much of it. It isn't mafia, but it's pretty darn close.

Should I also mention that the part of Connecticut currently with commuter rail choices beyond Amtrak (the southwest 1/3), is the fastest growing part of the state? For instance, Stamford has added on close to 20,000 people in the last 15 years - not bad for a city in metro NY already with over 100,000 people.

Last edited by netdragon; 01-10-2010 at 11:40 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-10-2010, 11:38 PM
 
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,469 posts, read 14,920,869 times
Reputation: 7263
Getting back on topic...

For me, anything less than Concept3 is unacceptable:



Transit Planning Board – Seamless Transit for Metro Atlanta
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-10-2010, 11:42 PM
 
Location: West Cobb (formerly Vinings)
3,615 posts, read 7,749,946 times
Reputation: 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
Getting back on topic...

For me, anything less than Concept3 is unacceptable:
I second that! I just sent them an email to the DOT based on your "Anything less than Concept 3 is unacceptable" tagline.

Quote:
I have some feedback on the 2010-2030 STIP. I'm glad that the state has finally identified it needs additional funding sources and identified the need for mobility between activity centers. I hope this translates into action in the next session. Anything less than Concept 3 is unacceptable. I live in Smyrna near Cumberland and I am absolutely appalled that with the 5 years of talk since I moved to Atlanta about getting something done, that there is still no way for me to jump on rail to my job downtown from an activity center as large as my own and that the wheels are turning so slowly on getting anything done. I hope this year is different. Please surprise us all!

Last edited by netdragon; 01-11-2010 at 12:04 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-11-2010, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,334 posts, read 25,996,941 times
Reputation: 3990
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
Getting back on topic...

For me, anything less than Concept3 is unacceptable:
Yeah, I think that would be wonderful, and I suspect we'd end up using some of those new elements quite a bit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-11-2010, 09:58 AM
 
1,868 posts, read 3,055,704 times
Reputation: 1627
I've seen two different maps for concept 3 with one being more developed than the one that was posted a few posts up. Which one is accurate? Here's the other:

http://transitboard.org/files/concept3_stylized.pdf

This one looks a little different namely around the airport and the 575 corridor. It also includes more bus routes.

Just for kicks, here's the map as it would look geographically.

http://tpb.ga.gov/Documents/TPB/Aug08/Attachment%202%20_AgendaItem%20IV_Concept%203%20ma p.pdf (broken link)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-11-2010, 10:23 AM
 
9,124 posts, read 36,292,986 times
Reputation: 3629
Guys, I hate to say it, but getting anything even close to those "Concept 3" drawings by 2030 is a pipedream. While one would think that 20 years would be plenty of time to implement such a program, with the environmental regulations, red tape, etc., that exists today, it'll never happen even if all the money was available right now.

People look at these maps and say things like "Well, the line along 575 would be easy- there's already tracks in place there". Sure- there's a track that runs through my hometown of Holly Springs, but it's a single track that has received little maintenance over the years, since it gets little use. To make any kind of commuter rail useful, you need dual tracks, which would require wider right-of-ways, new tracks, dozens of at-grade crossings renovations (or new bridges/overpasses), etc. Someone would also have to pay some big $$ to the folks that currently own the line- do you think they're just going to hand it over for free?

Now, try getting the approvals from the EPA, DEP, and lord knows how many other agencies. Then acquire and/or condemn all of the property along the wider ROW. Re-align the roadways that run parallel to the existing tracks. Move the existing historic stations and other structures along the tracks in Holly Springs, Woodstock, and elsewhere. That 20-mile stretch of track from Canton to the 575/75 intersection would easily cost $10 billion- a sum that couldn't ever be recouped even if every person in Cherokee County rode the train every day- and that's just to get you to Marietta.

I'm really not trying to be a downer here, but you're talking about trying to weave a complete new system through an existing area, whereas most systems that are already in place were done prior to (or during) the initial development of an area and in a far less litigious/regulatory era.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-11-2010, 10:39 AM
 
Location: West Cobb (formerly Vinings)
3,615 posts, read 7,749,946 times
Reputation: 830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adric View Post
I've seen two different maps for concept 3 with one being more developed than the one that was posted a few posts up. Which one is accurate? Here's the other:
waronxmas's image is from "Citizens for Progressive Transit". It's a more inner-metro focused transit plan, whereas Concept 3 covers a much larger area. As far as the inner metro goes, it's Concept 3 on steroids - fully inclusive, plus some. There are some advantages to CfPT's plan as far as how it would impact the inner metro. For example, Cumberland would be an intersection of 3 lines in CfPT's plan: top-end 285 BRT/LRT, 75 BRT/LRT, and also the W&A commuter rail line through Bolton, Vinings, Cumberland, Smyrna, and Marietta (which then branches to Kennesaw and Canton). The commuter rail was part of the passenger rail plan and missing from Concept 3, and replaced with a streetcar to Bolton on Marietta Blvd (which will simply service the expected high-density growth along that corridor). The commuter rail has been part of the state's passenger rail plan, though as you can see it was mentioned as one of the lowest priority projects for the 2010-2030 STIP. For some reason, some of the other commuter rail lines were left in-tact, probably because they were planning on tapping federal dollars, which is not available for a NW metro commuter rail. CfPT is a private non-profit organization, whereas Concept 3 was created by IT3 with some impout from DOT, and ARC. Note that there is yet a 3rd plan - the slightly older ARC envision6, which was largely wrapped into Concept 3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobKovacs View Post
Someone would also have to pay some big $$ to the folks that currently own the line- do you think they're just going to hand it over for free?
Though I agree, CSX and others have agreed to shoulder some of the burden for commuter rail. It's obviously not out of the goodness of their hearts - they know that some of the capital expenditures can be diverted to improve their own efficiency.

Last edited by netdragon; 01-11-2010 at 10:53 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-11-2010, 10:53 AM
 
2,685 posts, read 6,028,468 times
Reputation: 952
Maybe in the northeast but many cities have added light rail in recent years. Seattle with their horrible traffic just opened up their first light rail this past year and have plans to expand aggresively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobKovacs View Post
most systems that are already in place were done prior to (or during) the initial development of an area and in a far less litigious/regulatory era.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-11-2010, 12:08 PM
 
16,644 posts, read 29,340,573 times
Reputation: 7567
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobKovacs View Post
Guys, I hate to say it, but getting anything even close to those "Concept 3" drawings by 2030 is a pipedream. While one would think that 20 years would be plenty of time to implement such a program, with the environmental regulations, red tape, etc., that exists today, it'll never happen even if all the money was available right now.

People look at these maps and say things like "Well, the line along 575 would be easy- there's already tracks in place there". Sure- there's a track that runs through my hometown of Holly Springs, but it's a single track that has received little maintenance over the years, since it gets little use. To make any kind of commuter rail useful, you need dual tracks, which would require wider right-of-ways, new tracks, dozens of at-grade crossings renovations (or new bridges/overpasses), etc. Someone would also have to pay some big $$ to the folks that currently own the line- do you think they're just going to hand it over for free?

Now, try getting the approvals from the EPA, DEP, and lord knows how many other agencies. Then acquire and/or condemn all of the property along the wider ROW. Re-align the roadways that run parallel to the existing tracks. Move the existing historic stations and other structures along the tracks in Holly Springs, Woodstock, and elsewhere. That 20-mile stretch of track from Canton to the 575/75 intersection would easily cost $10 billion- a sum that couldn't ever be recouped even if every person in Cherokee County rode the train every day- and that's just to get you to Marietta.

I'm really not trying to be a downer here, but you're talking about trying to weave a complete new system through an existing area, whereas most systems that are already in place were done prior to (or during) the initial development of an area and in a far less litigious/regulatory era.

Well, I beg to differ. I think things can be done rapidly--if an entity, area, city, and/or metropolis aggressively seeks and follows a comprehensive master plan.

Take a look for some ideas and some inspiration on this:

Get LA Moving
*Click on "The Plan" at the top. Then click on "Financing Construction," "Construction," and "Case Studies" in the yellowish box in the top-right. Enjoy!


I would like to see a 15-Year Plan to Get ATL Moving.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-11-2010, 12:47 PM
 
9,124 posts, read 36,292,986 times
Reputation: 3629
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah View Post
Maybe in the northeast but many cities have added light rail in recent years. Seattle with their horrible traffic just opened up their first light rail this past year and have plans to expand aggresively.
Yes, and it's mostly an in-town system that runs on existing roads, similar to what the Peachtree Road system is supposed to do- not a large-scale system that would require massive ROW acquisitions, environmental impact assessments, etc. It's similar to the systems in Newark and Jersey City, and is far easier to implement than what is shown on these maps.

It also started with a bond approval almost 15 years ago and just started operation 6 months ago, and that's only for one $3 billion, 13-mile stretch. It's the kind of system that could be feasible in the Atlanta area, if the people here were as progress-minded as they are on the left coast. The huge, far-spreading system shown on the Concept 3 map is a far different beast.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top