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Old 01-16-2010, 08:39 PM
 
26 posts, read 165,653 times
Reputation: 33

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Quote:
Originally Posted by plessthanpointohfive View Post
(but keep it - I come from an Army family and I know the value of a military)
Extorting brown people so the government can stave off the oil crash and pay for all the other niceties of the welfare state?

Last edited by Ciarog; 01-16-2010 at 08:48 PM..
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Old 01-16-2010, 10:16 PM
 
2,642 posts, read 7,486,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciarog View Post
Extorting brown people so the government can stave off the oil crash and pay for all the other niceties of the welfare state?

Well, I did say scale back....
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Old 01-17-2010, 12:00 AM
 
Location: Atlanta Area - Just OTP NW
21 posts, read 61,794 times
Reputation: 22
Default I'm not aware of any ultra conservative areas...

I grew up in atlanta, went to college here, and have my own family here now living OTP. I've never been aware of any "ultra-conservative" areas. I suppose the farther to the left you hang your hat, the more "ultra" a conservative may seem but I think there are liberals in every part of town. As in most parts of the country, the population gets bluer the closer you get to the city itself and more red as you leave town. But, I think you've got to get outside of the perimeter by a good sixty miles or more in any direction before you'd stop seeing Obama bumper stickers.
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Old 01-17-2010, 07:29 AM
 
Location: East Cobb
2,206 posts, read 6,184,913 times
Reputation: 913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrigs View Post
I grew up in atlanta, went to college here, and have my own family here now living OTP. I've never been aware of any "ultra-conservative" areas.
Of course you haven't. You grew up here and went to college here and are now raising your own family here. How could you possibly think this area was "ultra" anything? Unless we grow up in very unusual circumstances, people naturally think of their home surroundings as normal, not extreme. I bet you think the Atlanta climate is moderate, too.

However, if you moved to New York city, you'd likely feel that your new neighbors were ultra liberal, although the New Yorkers likely wouldn't think of themselves that way. They'd think of themselves as normal, average people with a moderate and reasonable take on public affairs, not like those conservative wing-nuts in certain other parts of the country.

I'm not, for the purposes of this post, trying to support either a liberal or conservative viewpoint. Just to point out that this thread was started by someone contemplating a move from NYC. Your view that the northern Atlanta suburbs aren't specially conservative, isn't taking into account how your home area might seem to an outsider. But that's probably pretty much impossible for you to imagine, if you've lived here all your life, as indicated by the biographical facts you supplied.
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Old 01-17-2010, 07:41 AM
 
Location: St Simons Island, GA
23,120 posts, read 36,436,946 times
Reputation: 15470
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainyRainyDay View Post
Of course you haven't. You grew up here and went to college here and are now raising your own family here. How could you possibly think this area was "ultra" anything? Unless we grow up in very unusual circumstances, people naturally think of their home surroundings as normal, not extreme. I bet you think the Atlanta climate is moderate, too.

However, if you moved to New York city, you'd likely feel that your new neighbors were ultra liberal, although the New Yorkers likely wouldn't think of themselves that way. They'd think of themselves as normal, average people with a moderate and reasonable take on public affairs, not like those conservative wing-nuts in certain other parts of the country.

I'm not, for the purposes of this post, trying to support either a liberal or conservative viewpoint. Just to point out that this thread was started by someone contemplating a move from NYC. Your view that the northern Atlanta suburbs aren't specially conservative, isn't taking into account how your home area might seem to an outsider. But that's probably pretty much impossible for you to imagine, if you've lived here all your life, as indicated by the biographical facts you supplied.
And yet 'Ultra Liberals' are referred to as simply that, while Conservatives are referred to as 'wing-nuts'. Let's not be disingenuous. Your POV is quite clear, although you do have a point about what is 'normal'.
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Old 01-17-2010, 07:52 AM
 
Location: East Cobb
2,206 posts, read 6,184,913 times
Reputation: 913
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovinDecatur View Post
And yet 'Ultra Liberals' are referred to as simply that, while Conservatives are referred to as 'wing-nuts'. Let's not be disingenuous. Your POV is quite clear, although you do have a point about what is 'normal'.
I wasn't trying to hide my POV, just say that my post wasn't about that.

However, your reading of that line was not at all what I intended. I was trying to characterize the imagined New Yorkers as thinking of ultra conservatives in distant places as "wing-nuts". We often tend to stereotype people far away who don't think like us as a bunch of nuts. That language really wasn't a case of my point of view popping in there. When trying to put across my own point of view, I try to avoid such inflammatory language. Anyway, I don't think most conservatives are wing-nuts at all. There are a few colorful media figures I might characterize that way, but certainly not the typical Republican-voting Georgian. I absolutely don't think my conservative neighbors here in Cobb are wing-nuts at all.

Afterthought - the "conservative wing-nuts" language was all of a piece with characterizing the imagined New Yorkers as thinking of their own opinions as moderate and reasonable, I expected the conservative reader to think "how ridiculous" about all of that but hopefully, to appreciate that one's notions of what's moderate and what's extreme (or "wing-nutty") depends a lot on local norms.

Last edited by RainyRainyDay; 01-17-2010 at 08:20 AM.. Reason: afterthought
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Old 01-18-2010, 09:55 AM
 
7,848 posts, read 18,652,874 times
Reputation: 2805
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainyRainyDay View Post
I wasn't trying to hide my POV, just say that my post wasn't about that.

However, your reading of that line was not at all what I intended. I was trying to characterize the imagined New Yorkers as thinking of ultra conservatives in distant places as "wing-nuts". We often tend to stereotype people far away who don't think like us as a bunch of nuts. That language really wasn't a case of my point of view popping in there. When trying to put across my own point of view, I try to avoid such inflammatory language. Anyway, I don't think most conservatives are wing-nuts at all. There are a few colorful media figures I might characterize that way, but certainly not the typical Republican-voting Georgian. I absolutely don't think my conservative neighbors here in Cobb are wing-nuts at all.

Afterthought - the "conservative wing-nuts" language was all of a piece with characterizing the imagined New Yorkers as thinking of their own opinions as moderate and reasonable, I expected the conservative reader to think "how ridiculous" about all of that but hopefully, to appreciate that one's notions of what's moderate and what's extreme (or "wing-nutty") depends a lot on local norms.
Why would "local norms" have any bearing on the political views of an individual? I just don't believe that most people are influenced by what is considered "normal" in their geographical area. People believe what they believe, whether it's in NYC or Atlanta.

I guarantee you that if I moved to NYC, my neighbors' ultra-liberal beliefs wouldn't shock me in the least...and my beliefs wouldn't seem conservative to them.
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Old 01-18-2010, 12:59 PM
 
8,374 posts, read 7,524,961 times
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Default So Correct

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcsteiner View Post
Lack of "religion" doesn't always imply a lack of spirituality.

A person can be spiritual without hanging on to the various rituals and dogmatic trappings that most formally organized religions seem to require, or at least strongly advocate.

Beliefs exist outside of organized religion. I believe that most humans are basically good, for example. That isn't based on some tenant passed down to me through religious teachings ... it's a personal belief based on four decades of experience dealing with people.
Agreed.

Some of the nastiest people I know are big religion believers. Believing in God or Jesus doesn't necessarily make you a good person.
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Old 01-19-2010, 11:27 AM
 
314 posts, read 553,906 times
Reputation: 307
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconJ View Post
Why would "local norms" have any bearing on the political views of an individual? I just don't believe that most people are influenced by what is considered "normal" in their geographical area. People believe what they believe, whether it's in NYC or Atlanta.

This has been disproven a million times over. Even my grandmother knew the saying "if you lay with dogs, you get fleas". Peoples' friends, parents, relatives, schooling all influence how they feel about certain topics. No one wants their child hanging around with drug dealers and criminals, why? Because people are influenced by their surroundings, and there's the fear that if they hang out with a bad influence the bad influence will rub off on them.

Quote:
I guarantee you that if I moved to NYC, my neighbors' ultra-liberal beliefs wouldn't shock me in the least...and my beliefs wouldn't seem conservative to them.
Maybe not, but you've had years and years of living in a conservative area to solidify your beliefs.

If you were 4 years old and a liberal family in NYC adopted you, put you in a 'liberal' school and raised you to believe in liberal ideals you would be a WHOLE lot more likely to be a liberal than a conservative (or at least more liberal than you are now) If you grew up watching your dad be a union worker at a local steel mill and watching the union fight for better wages and benefits for him over 20-30 years, you're a lot more likely to be pro-union than if you grew up the son of the steel mill's boss, watching your dad constantly complain about how the union is bleeding him dry and its made up of lazy workers. Not that either side is necessarily wrong, but it's important to realize that our experiences shape us. No one pops out of the womb quoting Ayn Rand and eulogizing Ronald Reagan (or Karl Marx, for that matter). Again, these are all likelihoods and not laws set in stone, but they do exist. I'm an example of someone who had Republican parents who now votes D, but this would have never happened if I didn't go to college and get influenced by a whole new set of people in a way that changed how I look at a number of things. And even my political beliefs as a D are heavily influenced by my father's and mother's opinions.

You're right though, once you reach adulthood the factors that influenced you from 0-20~ (parents friends teachers schools neighbors) have taken their toll and we all get pretty set in our ways.


EDIT: I can't believe I'm lecturing a conservative on the importance of family in shaping our choices and the way that we look at the world (work ethic/morals/etc).

Last edited by spotch; 01-19-2010 at 11:41 AM..
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Old 01-19-2010, 11:42 AM
 
7,848 posts, read 18,652,874 times
Reputation: 2805
Quote:
Originally Posted by spotch View Post
This has been disproven a million times over. Even my grandmother knew the saying "if you lay with dogs, you get fleas". Peoples' friends, parents, relatives, schooling all influence how they feel about certain topics. No one wants their child hanging around with drug dealers and criminals, why? Because people are influenced by their surroundings, and there's the fear that if they hang out with a bad influence the bad influence will rub off on them.

Maybe not, but you've had years and years of living in a conservative area to solidify your beliefs.

If you were 4 years old and a liberal family in NYC adopted you, put you in a 'liberal' school and raised you to believe in liberal ideals you would be a WHOLE lot more likely to be a liberal than a conservative (or at least more liberal than you are now) If you grew up watching your dad be a union worker at a local steel mill and watching the union fight for better wages and benefits for him over 20-30 years, you're a lot more likely to be pro-union than if you grew up the son of the steel mill's boss, watching your dad constantly complain about how the union is bleeding him dry and its made up of lazy workers. Not that either side is necessarily wrong, but it's important to realize that our experiences shape us. No one pops out of the womb quoting Ayn Rand and eulogizing Ronald Reagan (or Karl Marx, for that matter).

You're right though, once you reach adulthood the factors that influenced you from 0-20~ (parents friends teachers schools neighbors) have taken their toll and we all get pretty set in our ways.


EDIT: I can't believe I'm lecturing a conservative on the importance of family in shaping our choices and the way that we look at the world (work ethic/morals/etc).
Sweetie, I'm far from conservative. I can't believe you didn't pick up on that information.

I grew up in a conservative household and came out completely liberal. I wonder how that happened if your theory is actually true?
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