Are minorities keeping McMansions alive? (Atlanta, Sandy Springs: townhomes, neighborhoods, buying)

[ATLTJL]

Just an interesting question here...

A couple of weeks ago, I took a friend up to South Forsyth to show him the new houses that are being built up there. Now, I'll never try to say that I don't live in a SOMEWHAT cookie cutter home. I mean, I know my same exact floorplan occurs at least 4 or 5 other times throughout my neighborhood, it's not unique. But at least my subdivision has some interesting topography, the roads curve a bit, and there is mature tree growth. So even though the houses aren't THAT different from each other, the neighborhood doesn't feel that cookie cutter.

Anyway, here's the point: We both couldn't stand the total cookie cutter feel of the McMansions they are building in South Forsyth. The houses are huge, but they all look pretty much identical. There's virtually no space between them and they clear cut all the trees so when you look down the street, all you see are rows of very similar houses. My comment was, "These may as well be townhomes, they didn't even try for an illusion of privacy!" You can tell the developers are eeking every bit of value they can by putting these enormous footprints on tiny lots. They even put the garages facing the street (which I can't believe anybody would do on a $250k+ home, and these are $400k+ homes), so they don't have to allow for additional driveway space on the side of the homes.

Pretty much every white person I know can't stand this design. And when you drive around these brand new McMansion neighborhoods, you notice something....white people AREN'T buying them. These areas are almost entirely Indian/Asian/Pakistani.

So my question is this: Are the demographics of these neighborhoods simply coincidental and have nothing to do with the architecture of the homes, or are white people ignoring cookie cutter McMansions while these minorities have no problem with their designs? If that's the case, do the builders design them this way on purpose in areas where they know they can sell to minority buyers? It just seems that in the same exact area, when you go into neighborhoods that are not cookie cutter, that's where you see the white people living. It's like they all got together and said, "We're not buying these McMansions!" You quite literally do not see ANY white people living in them.

It's striking to me how certain populations take over entire neighborhoods up there. It's like they had a giant meeting and everybody drew neighborhoods. I would expect to see SOME diversity, but no...there are subdivisions that appear to be 100% Indian, others that are 100% Asian, etc. It fascinates me how this happens, it seems impossible since realtors aren't allowed to talk about racial demographics. I just began wondering if maybe certain architectures appeal more to certain demographics.

What do you think?

[Fubarbundy]

Some people prefer privacy, some prefer community.

Architecture would be secondary, even unimportant.

[architect77]

Southerners typically like individuality for their domiciles. Driving across rural NC you see the flags on the front of so many houses (mostly manufactured, halfway between mobile and stick-built). Repetitive facades aren't people's top choice, however developers are deciding the fate of cities, and they're not looking at the awful impact to a city's mobility with huge subdivisions connected to a single, already crowded road.

In the Northeast, they don't look at housing as a place to express individuality, and nobody see a problem with repetitive towers distinguishable only by a number.

The one good thing about these cramped neighborhoods is how upon flying into Raleigh-Durham they seem to preserve the continuous canopy of trees. I think more are saved than lost from the clear-cutting that you mentioned. Don't get me wrong, I'd never want to live in a barren neighborhood not integrated with trees. It disgusts me, but again, people don't want to build their homes anymore, they want to choose from ready-to-move-in homes, so again developers are in total control.

I've argued that attached townhomes with good cavity-wall separations are smarter than detached homes with 10 feet between them, because that's totally wasted yard space that you can't use or enjoy. Sharing walls on each side is better for heating/cooling efficiency, and the money saved from 40% less exterior cladding could be spent on nicer front/rear exteriors.

But people argued about noise, not believing that party walls can be built to completely isolate sound and vibration.

I get my haircut near "The Collection" in South Forsythe, and let me tell you, they are building roads in the worst way, and they missed an opportunity to remove the left-turn phase of signals that would have helped immensely. To do that, they could have built Michigan lefts, Jersey Jughandles or NC Superstreets that accommodate left turns with u-turns past intersection or right loops onto intersecting street.

That clusterf**k of shopping centers at The Collection can make a simple U-turn from passing your desitnation take 20 minutes! I kid you not.

Check out bizarre Kitts Creek between Raleigh and Durham:

//www.city-data.com/forum/ralei...rrisville.html

Bedford in North Raleigh:

//www.city-data.com/forum/ralei...h-raleigh.html

River's Edge in Durham:

//www.city-data.com/forum/ralei...vers-edge.html

[Go Blue 99]

A few factors at play here:

- Within Asian and Indian culture, there is often a strong preference for new construction. I know many Indians that would never consider buying a resale house (as long as they can afford new). So since Alpharetta & Johns Creek are pretty much built out, Asians and Indians are now looking to South Forsyth to find that new construction. I don't know about other areas- are new construction subdivisions in East Cobb also all bought up by Indians?

- The Indians that are dominating the South Forsyth area are typically the H1-B IT Indians from South India. They haven't been in the US for that long, so they weren't around when the non-cookie cutter subdivisions were being built 20+ years ago. Now when they are ready to buy, they tend to buy in subdivisions where other H1-B Indians are. That's why you get the new subdivisions that are majority Asian.

- People are quick to blame builders for cramming in many lots into a small piece of land. But buyers are also at fault for this. Land is expensive, and buyers are basically saying they don't want to pay, say, 20% more for the house for an extra .25 acre lot.

[jhtrico1850]

They (whites) had their turn with McMansions in the 2000 housing bubble.

Also, multigenerational housing and new wealth from continued growth in IT

[roadtrip75]

OP makes an interesting observation, then all the other posters take pains to signal that they don't get it. It's all about signaling your goodness.

[Iconographer]

"Cookie Cutter" development is by no means a recent phenomenon. It really began post WWII, and was a function of economics more than anything else. Levittown, NY was the first of this kind of suburban template; working off of a limited set of plans with minor variation in detail proved a more efficient and inexpensive approach to housing. The fact that the first Levittowns were restricted to members of the Caucasian race brings a sense of irony to the OP's postulate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levittown

Look at 50's-era Atlanta neighborhoods like Woodland Hills, Briarcliff Heights and Ashford Park (postwar cottage style offering a menu of 3 house plans) or Oak Grove and Sandy Springs which gave us the repetitive Ranch style . Look at 70's-era Dunwoody, epicenter of the "Five, Four and a Door" phenomenon. Then there are 80's-era communities in Norcross, Marietta, Douglasville and Lilburn where the California Contemporary reigned supreme. The Faux-Tudor McMansion may be associated with the turn of the 21st Century, but the idea behind it harkens back more than 60 years.
As far as the assertion that this type of development may be more appealing to a particular type of race or culture, I really can't see it. I would tend to go with Fubarbundy on this one and say that if a particular ethnicity is being drawn to a development, that is probably born out of a desire to commune with those of like culture and experience and not the development itself.

[samiwas1]

I'm so white, my wife calls me "wonderbread". While I am not a fan of repetitive, clear-cut construction, the garage on the front is in no way a deal breaker for me. I prefer an L-shape with the garage on the front inside,but I'll take the front outside. I'm not a fan of rear garages.

[magnetar]

This is going to be a really crazy controversial thing to say, but: I don't think the color of your ****ing skin has anything to do with whether you like having a garage on the front of your house.

[AtlJan]

Here is a blog post by an Indian-American realtor in Alpharetta who touches on a lot of points mentioned above. Indians like new construction, great schools and proximity to IT jobs and other Indian families.

NRIPulse.com^^^Home Of The Indian American Family

I've also talked to Indian friends who really value having a single family home as it is something that was unattainable in the crowded cities of India and they really like the feeling of space and autonomy that it gives. Having any yard at all is what they mean, doesn't have to be a wooded, acre lot.