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Old 01-30-2010, 03:04 PM
 
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,021 posts, read 12,559,640 times
Reputation: 5944

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I will slightly echo the others on this thread and add that this news is worse for Georgia and some of the other medium sized cities around the region than it is for Atlanta.

While it will be great, I think the state should take this as a sign for becoming more interested in building a regional and commuter rail network. A high speed train running through the state would pretty useless if it didn't connect with terminals that then spread out to other areas.

Aside from that, we really need to study why we would need a high speed rail line. As it stands now, the proposed two routes would southeast to Macon and Savannah and the other going southwest to northeast going from New Orleans through Jackson, Birmingham, Atlanta, Greenville, Charlotte and ending in Raleigh. I can easily see myself hopping on a train to go down to Savannah or New Orleans, but the other cities...not so much.

Honestly, the best thing that could have happened for Georgia with this round of funding was being told 'No' so we can actually get to working on building a public transportation infrastructure in this state.

As for Atlanta, we're in much better shape to get funding for the Streetcars and Beltline since we actually have a plan and it has been studied for several years. For most of both projects all that is needed now is to get the money so we can start building.
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Old 01-30-2010, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
5,681 posts, read 10,215,980 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
As it stands now, the proposed two routes would southeast to Macon and Savannah and the other going southwest to northeast going from New Orleans through Jackson, Birmingham, Atlanta, Greenville, Charlotte and ending in Raleigh. I can easily see myself hopping on a train to go down to Savannah or New Orleans, but the other cities...not so much.
What we all need as a nation, is a viable alternative to air travel with its archaic ATC system, and the crumbling, congested roads. High-speed rail is the answer. Like others here have said, it's an all-weather, 24-7 thing that will provide frequent service at reasonable prices (based on the European model anyway).

The routes that appeal to you wouldn't be appropriate for others - high speed rail up the I-85 corridor makes perfect sense. Just because one line may end in Raleigh doesn't mean you can't then connect to other high speed routes beyond.
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:57 PM
 
3,877 posts, read 9,148,668 times
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This is disappointing and embarrassing for Georgia. Atlanta could possibly be one of the only major cities without a link to hi-speed rail, and if it ever does it will be one of the last ones. There is no reason why there should be a gap between the D.C. to Charlotte corridor, and the Florida corridor. I think this could also hurt Atlanta and Georgia's economy and growth in the future.
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Old 01-30-2010, 07:44 PM
 
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,021 posts, read 12,559,640 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAandATL View Post
This is disappointing and embarrassing for Georgia. Atlanta could possibly be one of the only major cities without a link to hi-speed rail, and if it ever does it will be one of the last ones. There is no reason why there should be a gap between the D.C. to Charlotte corridor, and the Florida corridor. I think this could also hurt Atlanta and Georgia's economy and growth in the future.
Actually if you look the map, there is already a gap:



Also keep in mind that the high speed line Florida is getting is only going to be between Orlando and Tampa for now. Miami won't be a part of the plan this time around, now will this line connect anywhere out of the state of Florida now or when it's finished.
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Old 01-30-2010, 07:48 PM
 
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,021 posts, read 12,559,640 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UpstateBooster View Post
What we all need as a nation, is a viable alternative to air travel with its archaic ATC system, and the crumbling, congested roads. High-speed rail is the answer. Like others here have said, it's an all-weather, 24-7 thing that will provide frequent service at reasonable prices (based on the European model anyway).

The routes that appeal to you wouldn't be appropriate for others - high speed rail up the I-85 corridor makes perfect sense. Just because one line may end in Raleigh doesn't mean you can't then connect to other high speed routes beyond.
I don't disagree that the country needs high speed rail. The problem is that there hasn't been any serious planning or coordination yet on the Southeast corridor. This past week's developments should act as a swift kick in the butt for Georgia. This in my view is a good thing.
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:01 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
625 posts, read 966,620 times
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Ummmmmmm, Florida has more than one major city unlike GA. Athens is too close, and savnanah, augusta, macon, etc, etc, etc, aren't big enough cities...nothing important going on here..

As far as state-to-state routes Nashville or charlotte to Atlanta could be nice but I'm not sure the other states care about Atlanta as much as Georgians think they do.

Maybe if Georgia had a real city south of Atlanta and didn't focus solely on this one region there'd be a reason to build one here, but pretty much everything south of Atlanta is a wasteland iin this sorry state, except for Savannah.

Maybe the route will go along the eastern coast but I'm against putting it through Atlanta it's not worth the price and there are greener pasters along the eastern seaboard.

Last edited by blondandfun; 01-30-2010 at 08:11 PM..
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:43 PM
 
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,021 posts, read 12,559,640 times
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A few other things everyone should keep in mind:

Editorial: Texas can't sit out high-speed rail forever | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Opinion: Editorials

Quote:
$2.3 billion to California, most of which will advance 220-mph service linking Northern and Southern California.

$1.2 billion to Florida, to support an 84-mile link for 168-mph trains between Tampa and Orlando.

$1.1 billion to Illinois, to upgrade Chicago-to-St. Louis service to 110-mph capability.

$810 million to Wisconsin, to upgrade Milwaukee-to-Madison service.

$520 million to North Carolina to speed Raleigh-Charlotte service.

$400 million to Ohio, to establish links for Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati.
So two things from the above.

-The rail money awarded the other day is mostly for upgrading already existing lines
-This is only beginning stages of building the high speed network and only Chicago-to-St. Louis goes out of their respective states.
-Florida only received funding because their legislature passed a bill to start building high speed rail after Sectary LaHood told Florida and Georgia to get it's act together about funding regional rail. Florida acted, Georgia didn't.

Now it's not all bad news for Georgia.

-It will be decades before any effective high speed rail network is built.

-It will be even longer before it begins to compete with Air as a method of intercity travel (outside of the Northeast corridor of course which never lost that).

-Even with North Carolina and Florida getting grants, Atlanta (and Georgia) is the transportation crossroads of the Southeast. We still have by far the busiest Airport and are connected to 3 major highways centrally and the largest population center for hundreds of miles around. It just makes sense from a regional perspective to have high speed rail terminating in Atlanta and the government knows that. This is why the feds gave Georgia a $750 million grant to study which route would work best out of Atlanta.

-It could be worse. Texas only got $11 million dollars in funding. Ouch!

So for now, we can hold the doom and gloom. This isn't a situation like what happened in the 50s when Birmingham decided not to expand its airport and we did making us the undisputed major city in the South....yet. We're still very much in this game.

Hopefully, the Legislature passes a commuter rail/public transportation bill this year, funds it, and gets serious about building it. If that happens then we are sure to get funding from the feds.
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
625 posts, read 966,620 times
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Tampa to Orlando is a good idea from a cost and ridership perspective. CA is also a good deal, because obviously they will make the money back with SF and LA. But Geeeeooorgia??? Atlanta is a big city I recognize, but there's nothing around here I'd want to to take a train to. The only place I'd take a train to would be Tampa where it's warmer in the winter, and that would obviously be too expensive and they couldn't make LONG-TERM money on that route.

What really amazes me is that many cities don't even try to attract Atlanta residents to them. You'd think Tampa and New Orleans and stuff would want to connect to us and benefit from our money. I would like to see something from the panhandle to Atlanta, since that area already get a TON of money from us. You'd think the beach towns would make more of an effort to attract Atlanta residents.

I've been in Atlanta for many years and I've never seen ANY type of advertisement about ANYTHING interesting in Savannah... This state is just DEVOID of life...
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Old 01-31-2010, 04:37 AM
 
3,877 posts, read 9,148,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
A few other things everyone should keep in mind:

Editorial: Texas can't sit out high-speed rail forever | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Opinion: Editorials



So two things from the above.

-The rail money awarded the other day is mostly for upgrading already existing lines
-This is only beginning stages of building the high speed network and only Chicago-to-St. Louis goes out of their respective states.
-Florida only received funding because their legislature passed a bill to start building high speed rail after Sectary LaHood told Florida and Georgia to get it's act together about funding regional rail. Florida acted, Georgia didn't.

Now it's not all bad news for Georgia.

-It will be decades before any effective high speed rail network is built.

-It will be even longer before it begins to compete with Air as a method of intercity travel (outside of the Northeast corridor of course which never lost that).

-Even with North Carolina and Florida getting grants, Atlanta (and Georgia) is the transportation crossroads of the Southeast. We still have by far the busiest Airport and are connected to 3 major highways centrally and the largest population center for hundreds of miles around. It just makes sense from a regional perspective to have high speed rail terminating in Atlanta and the government knows that. This is why the feds gave Georgia a $750 million grant to study which route would work best out of Atlanta.

-It could be worse. Texas only got $11 million dollars in funding. Ouch!

So for now, we can hold the doom and gloom. This isn't a situation like what happened in the 50s when Birmingham decided not to expand its airport and we did making us the undisputed major city in the South....yet. We're still very much in this game.

Hopefully, the Legislature passes a commuter rail/public transportation bill this year, funds it, and gets serious about building it. If that happens then we are sure to get funding from the feds.
Actually Georgia is only getting $750,000, not $750 million. I just hope that this doesn't mean in the future that Charlotte will become the new Atlanta and Atlanta will become the new Birmingham. However, I don't think that not having hi-speed rail will have as many negative consequences as people make it out to be, like Atlanta being abandoned and all the companies moving to NC or FL, since air travel will still be around and not be completely replaced by HSR. HSR will be more for regional travel, while air travel will still be ideal for long distance flights and obviously international. It is more of the principle of the matter that bothers me, like with the backwards way of thinking of state politicians, and just knowing that Atlanta and Georgia will be behind in anything. I've always wished for Georgia to be like Japan, to be the most technologically advanced and forward thinking and efficient state in the entire country. But in reality that is not the case. Since Georgia can't be like Japan, than we can think of it to be like somewhere else nice that doesn't have HSR and is years from getting it, such as Australia.
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Old 01-31-2010, 06:44 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,860 posts, read 15,203,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UpstateBooster View Post
What we all need as a nation, is a viable alternative to air travel with its archaic ATC system, and the crumbling, congested roads. High-speed rail is the answer. Like others here have said, it's an all-weather, 24-7 thing that will provide frequent service at reasonable prices (based on the European model anyway).
Sorry, but in places like Europe and Japan, with short distances and very dense urban areas very close to one another, high speed rail makes sense. In the US, with huge distances between major population centers and large swaths of land with low density population, it truly makes little sense.

If you look at the probably the only place in the US where rail makes logical sense, the Northeast Corridor, there are still many challenges, and taking a plane from Boston to DC, NY to DC, or even Boston to NY...still makes some sense. If rail isn't more attractive from Boston to NY...how on earth could it ever hope to be more attractive for a trip in the southeast US?

Sorry, but many of you folks are letting your political biases and desire to be like Europe get ahead of common sense and reality.

As for the ATC system...I'm a pilot...it's not archaic. I'm not saying improvements couldn't be made, but it's far from archaic.
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