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Old 01-31-2010, 06:54 AM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,381 posts, read 23,924,394 times
Reputation: 4532

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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
Sorry, but in places like Europe and Japan, with short distances and very dense urban areas very close to one another, high speed rail makes sense. In the US, with huge distances between major population centers and large swaths of land with low density population, it truly makes little sense.

If you look at the probably the only place in the US where rail makes logical sense, the Northeast Corridor, there are still many challenges, and taking a plane from Boston to DC, NY to DC, or even Boston to NY...still makes some sense. If rail isn't more attractive from Boston to NY...how on earth could it ever hope to be more attractive for a trip in the southeast US?

Sorry, but many of you folks are letting your political biases and desire to be like Europe get ahead of common sense and reality.

As for the ATC system...I'm a pilot...it's not archaic. I'm not saying improvements couldn't be made, but it's far from archaic.
What do you mean Rail isn't attractive in the NE , its becoming very popular in 20 years almost every city will have some form of Rail. The NEC is very congested , thats how popular it, in some places in NJ you can see 20 trains in 10 mins. There upgrading the NEC now so speeds and capacity can increase it will probably take 5 or 10 years before the whole project is done. But fly in the NE will one day become a 3rd option , right now its a 1st or second option depending on the weather and time of year. Speeds along the NEC will one day be = to Europe or Japanese HSR. and numerous Spur restoration or new lines will be 110-140mph. Eventually ATL will get this , but maybe not for another 10 years.

~Corey
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Old 01-31-2010, 06:54 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,858 posts, read 15,191,108 times
Reputation: 3566
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEAandATL View Post
I don't think that not having hi-speed rail will have as many negative consequences as people make it out to be, like Atlanta being abandoned and all the companies moving to NC or FL, since air travel will still be around and not be completely replaced by HSR. HSR will be more for regional travel, while air travel will still be ideal for long distance flights and obviously international.
Well exactly. People are coming here for business from well beyond the short distances perceived for rail travel. As for NC...gee...people can take a train from Raleigh to Charlotte and it will only cost the taxpayers a half a billion dollars (estimated) to build? Then how much will it cost taxpayers to run if it fails to break even (as all passenger rail in the US has failed to do for the last 30 years)?

Again...if Amtrak can't make a go in the northeast corridor where rail travel from urban core to urban core is possible and makes sense...why does anyone think they could make it work in the south? There is a reason the US Airways shuttle exists at Logan Airport and LaGuardia.
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Old 01-31-2010, 07:07 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,858 posts, read 15,191,108 times
Reputation: 3566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
What do you mean Rail isn't attractive in the NE , its becoming very popular in 20 years almost every city will have some form of Rail. The NEC is very congested , thats how popular it, in some places in NJ you can see 20 trains in 10 mins. There upgrading the NEC now so speeds and capacity can increase it will probably take 5 or 10 years before the whole project is done. But fly in the NE will one day become a 3rd option , right now its a 1st or second option depending on the weather and time of year. Speeds along the NEC will one day be = to Europe or Japanese HSR. and numerous Spur restoration or new lines will be 110-140mph. Eventually ATL will get this , but maybe not for another 10 years.

~Corey

Ridership in the NEC has been flat with a slight peak in ridership at the height of the gas price spike in 2008...the Acela trains which are billed as the answer (I've ridden them many times between South Sta and Penn Sta) were taken out of service on and off due to mechanical problems over the last few years...Amtrak is barely keeping afloat in the northeast and losing hugely all over the rest of the country. Some of the reasons they can keep it going in the northeast is because many of the terminals are used for commuter rail and the facilities are subsidized by the local and state governments. Many of the rights of way are also upgraded and maintained by local entities for use by commuter services. Amtrak piggybacks on that use.

My point is that in the best possible use case in the northeast, Amtrak still has serious challenges and people have not abandoned their cars (ever driven on I-95?) or stopped taking the air shuttles. The prices on Amtrak have continued to increase, and the cost/benefit isn't that good unless gas prices are at historic highs.
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Old 01-31-2010, 01:00 PM
 
Location: sowf jawja
1,940 posts, read 8,387,721 times
Reputation: 1045
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAniacTHW View Post
Damn. Even Tampa hopped on the light rail... And we're behind EVERY major city.
FL state legislature is responsible for the high-speed train to be built between tampa and orlando, not the city.
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Old 01-31-2010, 01:30 PM
 
Location: ATL
4,688 posts, read 6,802,608 times
Reputation: 1804
we are still ok, no matter how much the state BS around the Bullet Train must come through Atlanta in order for it to be successful
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Old 01-31-2010, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Augusta, Ga
114 posts, read 209,912 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeorgia View Post
we are still ok, no matter how much the state BS around the Bullet Train must come through Atlanta in order for it to be successful

How is it going to come through Atlanta if Atlanta has no bullet train system?

By the time Atlanta gets the funds to build a train system all the other major cities will already be up and running, and whats gonna happen is people are going to be wondering why in the world they can't get to Atlanta via bullet Train.
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Old 02-01-2010, 03:31 PM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
225 posts, read 522,506 times
Reputation: 91
I'm really surprised there isn't an Atlanta-Nashville network. After all, Nashville is merely a 3.5-4 hour drive from Atlanta and not worth flying to. To me, it just make sense from a tourism purpose because, (as most have noted), most folks from areas more than a 4-5 hour drive typically fly in to Atlanta.
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,732 posts, read 12,464,459 times
Reputation: 2774
Quote:
Originally Posted by speeddemonz View Post
How is it going to come through Atlanta if Atlanta has no bullet train system?

By the time Atlanta gets the funds to build a train system all the other major cities will already be up and running, and whats gonna happen is people are going to be wondering why in the world they can't get to Atlanta via bullet Train.
Nope, it won't be played out that way at all.

Other surrounding States are clearly ahead at this point, but look at the U.S. DOT designated corridors. We are the hub and crossroads of the Southeast network. The Feds and the local powers-that-be will NOT allow Atlanta to not be a hub for HSR. It would be idiotic to do so, for the entire region.

Business travelers and tourists will use it heavily, especiailly to nearby cities like Nashville, Charlotte, Birmingham, Greenville/Spartanburg, etc. The insane $600+ airfares to Birmingham and Nashville artificially suppress travel. HSR would stimulate massive demand if priced right.

You can count on it.
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Old 02-02-2010, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,528 posts, read 4,382,485 times
Reputation: 2299
This thread is a total misfire.
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Old 02-02-2010, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,858 posts, read 15,191,108 times
Reputation: 3566
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnatl View Post
Business travelers and tourists will use it heavily, especiailly to nearby cities like Nashville, Charlotte, Birmingham, Greenville/Spartanburg, etc. The insane $600+ airfares to Birmingham and Nashville artificially suppress travel. HSR would stimulate massive demand if priced right.
You say "priced right" which means subsidized. The gov't could just subsidize the airlines now and hold down fares, and get the same result today without spending billions more of borrowed dollars in the process.

You folks also seem to overestimate the ridership. Just how many people do you think are riding everyday between Nashville and Atlanta? How much would be the right cost to compete with auto and air? What is the true cost of building and operating this HSR? What is the ROI?

Start thinking in business terms and not political or emotional ones.
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