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Old 02-11-2010, 08:08 AM
 
1,498 posts, read 2,680,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsonga View Post
i.e. getting whiter....way to be discreet.
Um, no, that isnt what I meant. Of course, the fact that you assumed I was shows what issue you are most concerned about... I gather from this comment that it bothers you Atlanta is getting more white.

Atlanta is getting more wealthy, and in racial terms, it is not only getting more white, but more Asian and Hispanic as well.

To begin with, I wouldn't be discreet about anything on an online forum. Either way, there would be no reason to be discreet about something like this, because I think the city getting more diverse is a good thing. It will only help the city's image to have a large wealthy population, a larger white population, a larger asian population, and a larger Hispanic population.

Of course, that means a smaller black population to make room for the new people. And this is what drives people like you crazy...
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Old 02-11-2010, 08:11 AM
 
1,498 posts, read 2,680,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lastminutemom View Post
The state constitution would have to be amended to allow for a new county or two counties would have to agree to consolidate. (Constitution caps the number of counties in GA.)

There had been some discussion of private funds being raised to offer an incentive to two small counties to merge. However, I think the big money folks are pretty satisfied with the incorporation of the various cities and most folks are pleased enough with the schools in N Fulton, so I think the likely hood of being able to raise the money has diminished tremendously.

The percentage of S. Fulton students at N. Fulton schools is pretty small actually. It is just difficult for some folks to process the fact that areas like Sandy Springs, Alpharetta, Roswell etc have minority residents who have children in the schools, I think.

There is the same issue in parts of DeKalb. Folks presume that every minority student at N. DeKalb schools comes from outside the area. That isn't true at all.
You have no proof of this. I would be willing to bet that the percentage of South Fulton residents at Riverwood is at least 20%. And Alpharetta High School is 17% black which is quite large for an area that is only 4% black. Of course not every minority resident is from south fulton, but a lot are.

And N. Dekalb? You obviously have no knowledge of Dunwoody High School and what has been going on there for the past 20 years.
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Old 02-11-2010, 08:28 AM
 
7,848 posts, read 18,652,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rackensack View Post
If anything, people are more likely, in my experience, to oppose something that they know little about than to support it, given the natural tendency of most people to resist change.

Your assumption seems to be that aside from the politicians who're actively promoting the idea of Milton County, and a handful of people who write letters to the editor, no one else is in favor of it. You "contend" that that's the case, without offering any evidence, even anecdotal evidence, to support that. Despite that, I would concede the "minority" portion of your argument (though not necessarily the "loud" or "whiny") if the entity we're talking about a "minority" of is "the population of the entire metro Atlanta area". If we're talking about "the population of the proposed Milton County", I'd need to see some pretty compelling evidence, because anecdotally, most of my neighbors, most of the folks I talk to at my kids' school functions, at the parks, etc., are in favor of it. I can't categorically state that they're a majority of the entire area, as I haven't systematically surveyed a representative sample of the population, but by far the majority of the people I've heard express an opinion support it. Not in a "loud" or "whiny" way -- it's not something that most of us talk about a lot, but when it does come up that's how they feel.
That may be true in many cases, but in this one it's much more likely for misinformed people to jump on the bandwagon. It's easy for someone to remember one time when he wasn't happy with a county service and decide that he's being shortchanged in some way.

Do you REALLY believe that more people than not would support this idea? I have to think that most people are more level-headed than that. You're assuming that because people live in the affected area that they will be in favor of forming Milton County...I'm assuming that people aren't all that narrow minded.
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Old 02-11-2010, 09:13 AM
 
14,426 posts, read 23,111,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackCobain View Post
1) You have no proof of this. I would be willing to bet that the percentage of South Fulton residents at Riverwood is at least 20%. 2) And Alpharetta High School is 17% black which is quite large for an area that is only 4% black. Of course not every minority resident is from south fulton, but a lot are.

3) And N. Dekalb? You obviously have no knowledge of Dunwoody High School and what has been going on there for the past 20 years.

1. She does have proof.

2. You have to take into account the amount of white people who don't have children in the schools, are empty-nesters, and the few who still go private. And remember, Alpharetta High's attendance includes Windward, the eastern half of Old Alpharetta, and also...the GA 400 commercial/apartment corridor between North Point and Windward Parkway.

3. DeKalb County officially ended M to M in the early 2000s. The current "happenings" in the schools of Dunwoody are nothing like what was happening from the late 80's to the late 90's. Things have changed. And remember...like lastminutemom said, a lot more minorities actually live in Dunwoody than many people realize (or want to realize).

Last edited by aries4118; 02-11-2010 at 09:29 AM..
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Old 02-11-2010, 09:23 AM
 
Location: West Cobb County, GA (Atlanta metro)
9,188 posts, read 30,771,431 times
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A reminder... THIS is the topic....

If North Fulton was to successful separate from the rest of Fulton County, how would it affect the city of Atlanta and South Fulton County?

The topic is not about race relations, which some postings have started to steer toward indirectly. So keep it on topic, and no personal attacks please.
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Old 02-11-2010, 09:46 AM
 
744 posts, read 1,846,068 times
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Greg, silly guy, don't you know whether we're talking about communities, law enforcement, schools, politics, religion, Marta lines, the color wheel, clothes, food, hair, music, days of the week, hours in a day, minutes in an hour...it is always about race my friend
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Old 02-11-2010, 09:54 AM
 
14,426 posts, read 23,111,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127 View Post
A reminder... THIS is the topic....

If North Fulton was to successful separate from the rest of Fulton County, how would it affect the city of Atlanta and South Fulton County?

The topic is not about race relations, which some postings have started to steer toward indirectly. So keep it on topic, and no personal attacks please.
Well actually, if we are going to talk about the above topic accurately/thoroughly, it will involve race relations to some extent.


Fortunately or Unfortunately, that's just the nature of the Metro Atlanta Beast.

(And personally, and I know many posters agree...that's what's refreshing about Atlanta and a lot the American South...our frank, open discussion of race relations.)
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Old 02-11-2010, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Roswell, GA
697 posts, read 2,707,098 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackCobain View Post
You have no proof of this. I would be willing to bet that the percentage of South Fulton residents at Riverwood is at least 20%. And Alpharetta High School is 17% black which is quite large for an area that is only 4% black. Of course not every minority resident is from south fulton, but a lot are.
At my kids' elementary school in North Fulton, there were 757 students at the time the directory was published in October 2009. Of those, 9 had a home address other than Alpharetta or Roswell. Four of those were children of faculty or staff and as it happens in each case lived outside of Fulton County (3 in DeKalb, 1 in Gwinnett). There were 2 from Sandy Springs. That left a grand total of 3 students whose home addresses were in the City of Atlanta. One lives on Roswell Road, which is hardly South Fulton. The other two I didn't look at the specific addresses for, but in any case, assuming both of them are from South Fulton, that means that 0.264% of the student population is from South Fulton -- barely over one-quarter of one percent. The school is below capacity, so presumably if there were tons of transfers from other parts of the county going on, they'd have their share.

The Fulton County Schools' official policy on transfers to school's outside the child's home attendance zone can be found here: BoardDocs Policy: Transfers and Withdrawals

Among other things, it provides that:
Quote:
A. Majority to Minority (M-to-M) Transfer

The M-to-M program is now permanently closed to new enrollees, except for the siblings of M-to-M participants actively enrolled for the 2004-2005 school year.
Students already enrolled in M-to-M transfers must re-apply each time they complete the highest grade of their receiving school.

In other words, the only students still eligible for M-to-M transfers are those who were already transferred before the M-to-M program closed, and their siblings. Thus, it stretches credulity to contend that such students make up a significant portion of the student body of any North Fulton school.

As has been pointed out already, most of the discrepancy in demographics between the district population and the actual school population can be explained by the relatively higher percentage of students in private schools or being homeschooled in the more affluent areas. Fulton County school board member Julia Bernath recently presented statistics at a public meeting including the percentage of students in each school district who attend private schools -- I don't have those figures available to me to cite, but the correlation between the affluence of the district and the percent of the population attending private schools was pretty high.
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:40 AM
 
14,426 posts, read 23,111,859 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rackensack View Post
At my kids' elementary school in North Fulton, there were 757 students at the time the directory was published in October 2009. Of those, 9 had a home address other than Alpharetta or Roswell. Four of those were children of faculty or staff and as it happens in each case lived outside of Fulton County (3 in DeKalb, 1 in Gwinnett). There were 2 from Sandy Springs. That left a grand total of 3 students whose home addresses were in the City of Atlanta. One lives on Roswell Road, which is hardly South Fulton. The other two I didn't look at the specific addresses for, but in any case, assuming both of them are from South Fulton, that means that 0.264% of the student population is from South Fulton -- barely over one-quarter of one percent. The school is below capacity, so presumably if there were tons of transfers from other parts of the county going on, they'd have their share.

The Fulton County Schools' official policy on transfers to school's outside the child's home attendance zone can be found here: BoardDocs Policy: Transfers and Withdrawals

Among other things, it provides that:


Students already enrolled in M-to-M transfers must re-apply each time they complete the highest grade of their receiving school.

In other words, the only students still eligible for M-to-M transfers are those who were already transferred before the M-to-M program closed, and their siblings. Thus, it stretches credulity to contend that such students make up a significant portion of the student body of any North Fulton school.

As has been pointed out already, most of the discrepancy in demographics between the district population and the actual school population can be explained by the relatively higher percentage of students in private schools or being homeschooled in the more affluent areas. Fulton County school board member Julia Bernath recently presented statistics at a public meeting including the percentage of students in each school district who attend private schools -- I don't have those figures available to me to cite, but the correlation between the affluence of the district and the percent of the population attending private schools was pretty high.
Good post.
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Old 02-11-2010, 11:41 AM
 
1,498 posts, read 2,680,726 times
Reputation: 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by rackensack View Post
At my kids' elementary school in North Fulton, there were 757 students at the time the directory was published in October 2009. Of those, 9 had a home address other than Alpharetta or Roswell. Four of those were children of faculty or staff and as it happens in each case lived outside of Fulton County (3 in DeKalb, 1 in Gwinnett). There were 2 from Sandy Springs. That left a grand total of 3 students whose home addresses were in the City of Atlanta. One lives on Roswell Road, which is hardly South Fulton. The other two I didn't look at the specific addresses for, but in any case, assuming both of them are from South Fulton, that means that 0.264% of the student population is from South Fulton -- barely over one-quarter of one percent. The school is below capacity, so presumably if there were tons of transfers from other parts of the county going on, they'd have their share.

The Fulton County Schools' official policy on transfers to school's outside the child's home attendance zone can be found here: BoardDocs Policy: Transfers and Withdrawals

Among other things, it provides that:


Students already enrolled in M-to-M transfers must re-apply each time they complete the highest grade of their receiving school.

In other words, the only students still eligible for M-to-M transfers are those who were already transferred before the M-to-M program closed, and their siblings. Thus, it stretches credulity to contend that such students make up a significant portion of the student body of any North Fulton school.

As has been pointed out already, most of the discrepancy in demographics between the district population and the actual school population can be explained by the relatively higher percentage of students in private schools or being homeschooled in the more affluent areas. Fulton County school board member Julia Bernath recently presented statistics at a public meeting including the percentage of students in each school district who attend private schools -- I don't have those figures available to me to cite, but the correlation between the affluence of the district and the percent of the population attending private schools was pretty high.
I specifically did not refer to elementary schools for that very reason. I am well aware of the M-to-M situation. You need to look at the high schools for an accurate depcition of how much busing is going on, for those kids are basically grandfathered in. And just because the M-to-M program is expired doesnt necessarily give an accurate picture - there are other ways around it, for example making Riverwood a magnet school that provides county-wide busing.

Either way, the damage is already done. Even if the M-to-M program is done, people are still pissed about how much tax money a program like that ate up and how unnecessary it was.
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