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I don't think anybody is looking to throw more money at the schools, but to keep the current level of funding instead.
GA cannot afford to make a mess of this. Too many of our schools are already failing. I think the kids need more hours, and more days, not less.
Why not raise the tax on cigarettes and beer/wine for the schools? Those alone would probably bring in enough dollars to offset the university funding problems as well as the elementary, middle, and high schools.
Asking working parents to pay for day care during a 4 day school week isn't any better than taxing them, in fact at $25.00/day for one child that adds up to a $1200. year increase in expenses.
I do like the idea of starting later in the year. I thinking starting school in early August in Georgia is absolutely insane. Then to end before the end of May is even crazier. It's considerably cooler in May than it is in August. Anyone know the "logic" behind this?
I don't think my son would be too tired for a longer day. Frankly, I think the boy could literally run across the state and not be tired, but I don't think he can absorb anymore information.
The only reason we have such a long summer break in this country is because we never changed our ways. It was started because most families needed the extra hands on the farm in the summer, but there aren't many families who are running small farms anymore so why not reduce summer break.
Looking at other countries it is obvious that a longer school year is beneficial and that we are very lite on our schooling, seems especially true here in Georgia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb
Frankly, I think the boy could literally run across the state and not be tired, but I don't think he can absorb anymore information.
The only reason we have such a long summer break in this country is because we never changed our ways. It was started because most families needed the extra hands on the farm in the summer, but there aren't many families who are running small farms anymore so why not reduce summer break.
Looking at other countries it is obvious that a longer school year is beneficial and that we are very lite on our schooling, seems especially true here in Georgia.
As a person entirely educated in other countries, I heartily agree with Noah. Complaints that the Georgia summer school break is too short mystify me completely. It may be too short for some families' vacation plans, job plans, etc. but from an educational point of view, it's already so long that kids lose knowledge and skills.
I also personally approve of the current calendars which have school starting in August so as to put the mid-year break right at the winter vacation time. In jurisdictions where school starts after Labor Day, first-semester exams usually fall in late January. Having gone to high school under that system, I don't like it. People who advocate for going back to a later school start always seem to be parents of elementary school aged children. I can very well understand that they like the traditional calendar which includes August in the vacation time. For elementary schoolers, that's fine. But it doesn't work so well for high schoolers, in my experience, because their first semester classes are interrupted by the two-week vacation over Christmas and New Year.
Supporters of longer school days always seem to be parents of elementary schoolers too. My high school sophomore goes to the gym for 45 minutes right after school, most days, then does nothing but homework (and eat dinner) until bedtime. How would an extra hour of instruction per day fit into this scheme, exactly?
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterNY
And how do corporations deal with the brain drain issue? Bring in talent from elsewhere (other countries, rightfully so). Then we complain...
There isn't a brain drain issue in the US for most types of positions. Plenty of US citizens with the qualifications and/or experience required.
The issue tends to be one of cost, not talent, and I've seen several studies which are related to the H1B program which seem to support that conclusion.
I'd be interested to hear more about what they do in Finland.
.
Ok this is going to be long. . .and I apologize if I am all over the place--my thoughts may be interrupted by my busy 3 year old.
Not so long ago, Finland was in a similar situation as the US. When compared to other countries they were "rated" middle to bottom of the pack. But about 40 years ago they revamped their system. One of the first things that they did was eliminate their "education inspector". Also, they have a national governing body. . .nothing like the local/national mess that we have here in the US. The national body creates the "curriculum standards"--guidelines that are not mandatory. And the schools/teachers determine how to teach or "transfer" those skills to each individual student by creating a specialized curriculum/lesson plan.
In the Nordic countries, the only individuals "sanctioned" to teach are individuals who have acquired a masters of education (no bachelors). It is very difficult to become a teacher in these countries. . .I believe only 1 in 8 are selected and they are highly esteemed--similar to MDs in our country. Also, many have stated that in the US the bottom of the class tend to go for teaching degrees and the top for doctorate.
Another notable aspect about the these countries is pupil spending. They spend less per student than the US does. There is no busing, extracurricular, sports teams, or band. But their students do receive music and art education. Also students begin school at the age of 7 (compulsory) and complete their education by 15. During compulsory schooling the students remain together (with the same teacher). There are no gifted programs and the class sizes are quite large (30 students) by US standards. After compulsory they move on to secondary schooling--which is not required--where they can choose vocational studies or academic/upper secondary studies. And acceptance into the secondary schools is based on grades.
Another thing that saved their educational system was the "Gardner method". They use to apply the the "gas tank fuel service or ATC (Rear To Chair) method" and received poor results. . .the US still does. **if you want to know more about their definition of these methods, I will be more than happy to explain using examples from a Nordic Teacher/acquaintance**
In the Nordic countries, teachers have the freedom to choose any method of teaching he/she desires as long as they can justify by the end of the school year that the students have reached the expected skill level. So in short, they use the learning styles model.
Lastly, the Nordic model requires very little testing. Because the teachers are highly trained they can determine from home work and class assignments how well a student is performing. This is why remaining with the same teacher is so important to their model. And one should note that the relationship between teacher and pupil is informal. . .but there exists the greatest amount of respect between the two.
** If we cut out some of the bulk from the budget, like the Nordic countries did, and stop thinking that money/excessive spending is the only key to success. . .this may help eliminate most of our problems. Also, I agree that upper education should be limited to those who desire it. After 15 or 16 years of age, we can add fresh meat to our work-force j/k.
Last edited by SleeplessnATL; 03-02-2010 at 09:53 AM..
Something to consider when we're talking about Finland and Sweden- these countries have populations of +/- 5 million and 9 million, respectively, which is less than many states in the US. I'm not saying that's an issue that would preclude us from instituting a system similar to theirs, but it's definitely something to keep in mind- you'd be trying to implement that system to a population that's over 30 times the size of Sweden's, and 60 times the size of Finland's.
Something to consider when we're talking about Finland and Sweden- these countries have populations of +/- 5 million and 9 million, respectively, which is less than many states in the US. I'm not saying that's an issue that would preclude us from instituting a system similar to theirs, but it's definitely something to keep in mind- you'd be trying to implement that system to a population that's over 30 times the size of Sweden's, and 60 times the size of Finland's.
I am not sure which part of their system you are referring to but I do agree that some parts may not work. Unlike the Nordic countries, we have a large group of people living in poverty. Also, our definition of "equality" is completely different from theirs. So, we would have to overhaul the American way of thinking along with the educational system. . . and I think that would be very difficult (and expensive) to change the way people think.
But, in the end, I believe that the take-home message is that we should shave some of the non-necessities from the educational budget. . .and get rid of some of the finger-twiddlers who are just holding space and doing nothing to advance education.
I've heard Clark Howard talk about how Finland does it and it sounds impressive. Size of the country doesn't seem to be important, many large countries are near the top in education, we just happen to be in the ranks of third world countries currently when it comes to education.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SleeplessnATL
Ok this is going to be long. . .and I apologize if I am all over the place--my thoughts may be interrupted by my busy 3 year old.
Not so long ago, Finland was in a similar situation as the US. When compared to other countries they were "rated" middle to bottom of the pack. But about 40 years ago they revamped their system. One of the first things that they did was eliminate their "education inspector". Also, they have a national governing body. . .nothing like the local/national mess that we have here in the US. The national body creates the "curriculum standards"--guidelines that are not mandatory. And the schools/teachers determine how to teach or "transfer" those skills to each individual student by creating a specialized curriculum/lesson plan.
In the Nordic countries, the only individuals "sanctioned" to teach are individuals who have acquired a masters of education (no bachelors). It is very difficult to become a teacher in these countries. . .I believe only 1 in 8 are selected and they are highly esteemed--similar to MDs in our country. Also, many have stated that in the US the bottom of the class tend to go for teaching degrees and the top for doctorate.
Another notable aspect about the these countries is pupil spending. They spend less per student than the US does. There is no busing, extracurricular, sports teams, or band. But their students do receive music and art education. Also students begin school at the age of 7 (compulsory) and complete their education by 15. During compulsory schooling the students remain together (with the same teacher). There are no gifted programs and the class sizes are quite large (30 students) by US standards. After compulsory they move on to secondary schooling--which is not required--where they can choose vocational studies or academic/upper secondary studies. And acceptance into the secondary schools is based on grades.
Another thing that saved their educational system was the "Gardner method". They use to apply the the "gas tank fuel service or ATC (Rear To Chair) method" and received poor results. . .the US still does. **if you want to know more about their definition of these methods, I will be more than happy to explain using examples from a Nordic Teacher/acquaintance**
In the Nordic countries, teachers have the freedom to choose any method of teaching he/she desires as long as they can justify by the end of the school year that the students have reached the expected skill level. So in short, they use the learning styles model.
Lastly, the Nordic model requires very little testing. Because the teachers are highly trained they can determine from home work and class assignments how well a student is performing. This is why remaining with the same teacher is so important to their model. And one should note that the relationship between teacher and pupil is informal. . .but there exists the greatest amount of respect between the two.
** If we cut out some of the bulk from the budget, like the Nordic countries did, and stop thinking that money/excessive spending is the only key to success. . .this may help eliminate most of our problems. Also, I agree that upper education should be limited to those who desire it. After 15 or 16 years of age, we can add fresh meat to our work-force j/k.
I've heard Clark Howard talk about how Finland does it and it sounds impressive. Size of the country doesn't seem to be important, many large countries are near the top in education, we just happen to be in the ranks of third world countries currently when it comes to education.
I am not sure about the cost. . .but one person I spoke to--from Denmark (a teacher)--had detailed information about how the system use to work and how it currently works. It seems that money is not as much the issue as getting beyond the "old" way of thinking. For what the US is suppose to stand for, we have a lot of fears about outside forces. We like the straight and narrow path. . .add a fork in the road and it seems impossible comprehend.
I think it can work.. .and right now, budget cuts are making us consider larger class sizes and the elimination non-necessity programs. I believe this will be a beneficial step to obtaining financial stability and, potentially, help us improve how the individual student learns.
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Complaints that the Georgia summer school break is too short mystify me completely. It may be too short for some families' vacation plans, job plans, etc. but from an educational point of view, it's already so long that kids lose knowledge and skills.
The Nordic Method
j/k.
