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How curious that you would think that (the bolded part). I'm guilty here of thinking this song is about me. If that's true, I can assure you I never imagined the budget problems in Georgia were unique to our state or "driven by" a "conservative" agenda. Silly me, I though the financial crisis, recession, property value meltdown were national, and even to some extent global.
Wasn't singling you or anyone else out. Having said that, there have been comments on this board by folks blaming Gov Perdue and blaming "conservatives" and a "bubba mentality" for lots of things from perceived insufficient transit, cuts to schools, and other things as well.
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Originally Posted by RainyRainyDay
That responses of the Georgia legislature and taxpayers to this situation might be informed by conservative attitudes and agendas, yes, I do think that. Last I noticed, we had a Republican governor, Republican majority in the legislature, and a lot of those folks proudly claim to be conservative in their views.
Are you trying to say that if teachers are being laid off in Massachusetts, then it's perfectly OK that they're being laid off here too?
So you completely miss the point.
Last I noticed, MA and other states have Democrat Governors and massive Democrat majorities in their legislatures. Despite that fact and a 25% increase in the sales tax recently passed in MA, as well as other tax increases, the wider economic factors and the attendant tax impacts, along with the cost impacts of unions have led to deep cuts anyway.
Your point in a previous thread was that GA and the counties should raise taxes and everything would be fine. MA did that...and they still face cuts. So I guess you answer would be to just raise taxes even higher? It's not OK that teachers are being laid off (for the most part), but there is a reality that everyone in all states is dealing with...that's a fact.
We have been in one massive housing bubble for 40 years...we are just at the tip of the ice-berg right now. Glad I'm not going to try to sell for a few dozen years.
If there never was a so called bubble except for condos then districts like Cobb would not be hurting (They don't rely on property taxes on condos for their revenue). There are SFH communities which has lost 50% of their value in the metro. Things will get better but in the meantime this is the reality in many areas. Texas is very unique in how their economy has held up.
It's been more like a credit bubble. People making $50k a year but buying $500k homes? Yeah, right.
Homes in lower price ranges have fared much better due to affordability. And unemployment being so high in GA, that's another reason those homes values have slid so much.
Wasn't singling you or anyone else out. Having said that, there have been comments on this board by folks blaming Gov Perdue and blaming "conservatives" and a "bubba mentality" for lots of things from perceived insufficient transit, cuts to schools, and other things as well.
So you completely miss the point.
Last I noticed, MA and other states have Democrat Governors and massive Democrat majorities in their legislatures. Despite that fact and a 25% increase in the sales tax recently passed in MA, as well as other tax increases, the wider economic factors and the attendant tax impacts, along with the cost impacts of unions have led to deep cuts anyway.
Your point in a previous thread was that GA and the counties should raise taxes and everything would be fine. MA did that...and they still face cuts. So I guess you answer would be to just raise taxes even higher? It's not OK that teachers are being laid off (for the most part), but there is a reality that everyone in all states is dealing with...that's a fact.
I think it's you that misses my point. I got your point perfectly well. However the bolded part above is a ridiculous straw man. I only suggested that a property tax increase could be considered, because due to the decline in property values, a millage increase could be used just to bring property tax revenues up closer to where they were last year. As I said before, I could certainly afford to pay as much school tax this year as I paid last year. I don't get why you translate the idea that a millage rate increase might be preferable to really drastic cuts, into "raise taxes and everything would be fine". In fact, at one point, you yourself wrote that you'd prefer a property tax increase to really drastic cuts, but only as a last resort. I guess you just like arguing against a straw man. "Everything would be fine?" Apparently you assume that anyone who ever mentions a tax increase is in la-la land.
Meanwhile, according to yesterday's AJC, the Fulton school board is proposing to ask for a one mill increase.
Apparently you assume that anyone who ever mentions a tax increase is in la-la land.
Nope, never said that and don't believe that, but many who advocate for tax increases don't stop to consider where the money actually comes from or the fact that raising taxes has an impact. Raising taxes often becomes the knee jerk first resort, not the absolute last resort.
School systems, like local, state, and the federal gov't, often grow their budgets in good times and get sloppy in their management of those budgets. I think CCSD does a pretty good job, but I'm sure that there are opportunities for some belt tightening, and some of those things are being proposed.
My earlier point was really a rebuttal to all the comments recently that somehow Georgia, due to the fact that Republicans control the state government, is draconian and way behind other states, with the implicit point being that if only Democrats were in power here in GA, things would somehow be different. I wanted to show, and it was pointed out the same thing is true for Illinios (Mr Obama's home state and a liberal bastion), that even liberal bastions controlled by Demorcats like MA and IL are suffering the same fate. Despite tax increases and massive spending, they aren't much better off than GA. I can't make the point any simpler than that.
My earlier point was really a rebuttal to all the comments recently that somehow Georgia, due to the fact that Republicans control the state government, is draconian and way behind other states, with the implicit point being that if only Democrats were in power here in GA, things would somehow be different.
Actually Neil, I don't think the problem is that Georgia is in economic trouble, as you point out, so is everybody else. Everybody is having to cut education and social programs. The problem is that in Georgia (and much of the southeast) the economic trouble hits harder because those programs were already running on a shoestring in the first place. There's no safety net here to help people make it through the hard times, thus it'll be harder to get out. Most of the people on this board will probably be fine as far as our kids are concerned. Larger classrooms won't impact our kids as hard because we're in a position to supplement and they were ahead of the curve in the first place. Unfortunately, the kids who were on the bubble to begin with are going to fall further behind. And yes, the question is, why should we care. Simple, our kids have to live in the same society as the kids who are left behind. It's not like they're going to evaporate. Poorly educated kids tend to grow up to become the criminal class. Frankly, it's a lot cheaper to educate than incarcerate. Either way, we have to deal with them.
Actually Neil, I don't think the problem is that Georgia is in economic trouble, as you point out, so is everybody else. Everybody is having to cut education and social programs. The problem is that in Georgia (and much of the southeast) the economic trouble hits harder because those programs were already running on a shoestring in the first place. There's no safety net here to help people make it through the hard times, thus it'll be harder to get out. Most of the people on this board will probably be fine as far as our kids are concerned. Larger classrooms won't impact our kids as hard because we're in a position to supplement and they were ahead of the curve in the first place. Unfortunately, the kids who were on the bubble to begin with are going to fall further behind. And yes, the question is, why should we care. Simple, our kids have to live in the same society as the kids who are left behind. It's not like they're going to evaporate. Poorly educated kids tend to grow up to become the criminal class. Frankly, it's a lot cheaper to educate than incarcerate. Either way, we have to deal with them.
Nail on the head.
But, GA has history, a bad ugly tough and dirty history, of dealing with leaving people behind. Though, I'm sure the current society won't allow anything like that to happen.
Actually Neil, I don't think the problem is that Georgia is in economic trouble, as you point out, so is everybody else. Everybody is having to cut education and social programs. The problem is that in Georgia (and much of the southeast) the economic trouble hits harder because those programs were already running on a shoestring in the first place. There's no safety net here to help people make it through the hard times, thus it'll be harder to get out. Most of the people on this board will probably be fine as far as our kids are concerned. Larger classrooms won't impact our kids as hard because we're in a position to supplement and they were ahead of the curve in the first place. Unfortunately, the kids who were on the bubble to begin with are going to fall further behind. And yes, the question is, why should we care. Simple, our kids have to live in the same society as the kids who are left behind. It's not like they're going to evaporate. Poorly educated kids tend to grow up to become the criminal class. Frankly, it's a lot cheaper to educate than incarcerate. Either way, we have to deal with them.
Point taken, and I personally do care, but there is only so much money available to the state and they have to set priorities. I also believe that in many cases (not saying all), the cuts are minor in impact to good students with involved parents.
Now....having said that...by implication that means that some students without involved parents or who don't apply themselves may now get less attention in class and may fall behind. While I sympathize with that, it's may be a function more of the lack of parental involvement, and that cannot be laid at the school's or the state's doorstep.
The real question is what do we as a country do about short term fiscal impacts to our municipal and state budgets? Tax collections will return to more normal levels as unemployment subsides and sales tax revenue increases. As property values begin to climb again, county tax collections will return to more normal levels as well. We cannot raise taxes by leaps and bounds every time a short term fiscal crisis hits. The key is not to institute budgets that are built on bubbles.
While I sympathize with that, it's may be a function more of the lack of parental involvement, and that cannot be laid at the school's or the state's doorstep.
I'm more than willing to stipulate that it's the parent's fault. As as I said, if these children would simply evaporate and not turn into a criminal/underclass that then negatively impacts on us all, that would be well and good. Unfortunately, that's not the way it works. The kids of uninvolved parents are the ones that grow up and wreak havoc on society. I only have one child. Despite the fact that his father and I work ceaselessly to nurture and educate that child, his life can be snuffed out in an instant by someone whose parents simply "bred 'em and fed 'em." That's my worst nightmare, and one that already keeps me awake nights and he's only five years old.
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The key is not to institute budgets that are built on bubbles.
I agree. I don't know enough about Georgia politics to comment. However, I do know that when Alabama tried to institute tax reform (Led by a conservative Republican governor), it was shot down. The Agriculture and timber industries bucked against the notion of paying their fair share, and launched a campaign that almost unseated the governor. He quickly got back in line and started spouting the same rhetoric every other governor of Alabama has used: We don't need more taxes, we need to cut waste. Amazing how almost losing an election will make a governor change his stripes.
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