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Based on everything written by the OP, I second Lauren's posts. It would have been easier to have made that move in 1986, and it will only get more difficult over time.
Can you try and make it an extended move -- spread it out over several months (one of parents moves first some time in 2010, the other follows after some time in say 2011, etc.), so the time away from your older daughter is minimized? The other parent might be able to start working for the Bay area office, but do a telecommute for a while. Or some combination of this.
So, when I was in India being a tourist and visiting family in Delhi and Chandigarh I asked some of them the same question. Most said they were just use to using the old name. As I'm sure you're aware (being of a certain segment of society in 1970's Bombay) the name Bombay was imposed on that city by the British. Maybe I'm being too shallow, but why would someone shun the idea of replacing a name that was given by those who subjugated that city. Especially since Mumbai was the original name? Maybe you're right... I don't get it.
Off track, but just to clarify to davesm: To give a simple explanation, it was a case of the politicians of the state, and not the people of the bustling city that is made of a diverse popualtion deciding to rename a city in the local language. This happened to many major cities in India in the 80s and 90s. Many of these cities did not exist in any substantial way until the colonizers arrived. And in the case of Mumbai, I am not even sure that was the orignal name.
Based on everything written by the OP, I second Lauren's posts. It would have been easier to have made that move in 1986, and it will only get more difficult over time.
Can you try and make it an extended move -- spread it out over several months (one of parents moves first some time in 2010, the other follows after some time in say 2011, etc.), so the time away from your older daughter is minimized? The other parent might be able to start working for the Bay area office, but do a telecommute for a while. Or some combination of this.
We have considered this, or a variation thereof. But not sure if the payoff is worth the sacrifice, in time away from each other, in money (dual residences), and other difficulties. We both work and stay busy with work, and manage one household mainly through close cooperation and picking up the other's slack whenever possible. But still, a thought... not discarded yet.
Lauren, did you mean Atlanta crime is less than San Francisco?
"I think you'll find the crime is less, comparing Atlanta to San Fran."
I suppose it's significant enough that as we are not in Atlanta proper, neither will we be in SF proper, but a sort of far-flung suburb of each. Not really sure how the crime factors in SF, but in Milton it is relatively low and a high proportion of what is there is committed on a low scale by bored teens.
I am thinking about moving in the opposite direction. I live in the East Bay currently and love it from a parks and recreation perspective, but I hate the cost of living. Hey were else can you drop 800k on a 1900 sqft home. Here is how I see it. My wife and I can cash out of the madness, and move to Duluth, Dunwoody or somewhere else with decent public schools and pay 500k for a 2,500 to 3,000 sqft home. The problem is that we will not be able to drive up to Lake Tahoe to ski in 3 hours or so, or drive 2 hours South to do whale watching in Monterey. We also will not be able to hike or mountain bike the thousands of nature trails surrounding the bay. Bottom line: CA is broke, the public schools are being underfunded and there has to be tax hikes down the road to cover all the state bills. The upside is it is a beautiful place with lots of entertainment and recreation options.
I also have kids, but they are in elementary schoo. I see the Hope program as a plus, but I can't bank on it being there eight years or so from now. I can say the CA University school system is great. You wouldn't be looking at more that 10 - 15k per year full time. The down side, is that the schools are short seats. A large percentage of students do 2 years in a jr. college waiting for a opening in the state UC.
One last thing, I am a Black Man / African American. I have lived on the East Coast and Mid West. I have served in the Military and seen a bit of the world. With that said, the Bay Area is great from a diversity and openess perspective. Do not take me the wrong way. I have not lived in the South or specifically Atlanta, so I can not say that West Indians, Blacks or people of color get the short end of the stick as common practice. I can say that with the exception of Oakland CA, there isn't a large pool of economically challeged people of color at the bottom of the well being blamed for all the worlds social ills. Conversely, the liberal politics of the Bay Area can be challenging for some. Same Sex issues, drug / pot acceptance, etc.
Good luck,
One last thing..... The ocean here is cold my friend. I used to wind surf with a 5mm wetsuit. Without it I could not stand the water for more than 5 minutes.
irobot, nice post and well-thought out. I'd be happy to answer some of your questions regarding what I see as the black experience in Atlanta. I don't want to take this topic off-track so if you'd like to PM that would probably work best.
Great points and raises a question. My 15 yo is a very good student. She may close 9th grade with a 4.0, or may just miss it. Regardless, we expect she will finish high school with a pretty good score. We considered sending her to junior college (near Walnut Creek) when she is ready, partly because of the cost and partly just so she spends a little more time at home. Are JCs regarded as a huge compromise there? I know over here they are seen as second-tier, and rightly so and surely that is true anywhere. But how far down? I have a friend in hercules who sent all four kids to JC and they all went to Berkeley eventually, so that tells me that is certainly a real option, and that is what we thought for our girl as well. I think there is a guaranteed admission plan for JC grads to one of the UC schools, but of course not necessarily Berkeley. Maybe this is another thing we can discuss offline. I would love for her to go to Berkeley, in fact that would be a vicarious realization of the other burning desire I had, which was to do my grad studies there. I did so in Texas, no slouch but not quite Berkeley.
I hear you about the upsides/downsides of each place, and your tastes seem to run similar to ours. To some extent we have gotten bored of the things to do here. Our kids grew up here (although born in Texas) and that kept us pretty busy for a few years, both working and having fun with them. But now we are looking for more of what a couple our age wants. We love the outdoors although not into extreme sports (which for me starts at surfing :-) ). We do love hiking and walking in beautiful areas, and may even get into skiing. We have done a bit of trail biking and as long as it's relatively benign my wife is ok with that; she is a bit of a scaredy-cat.
LOL about the cold water.... experienced that for myself! I guess we won't be lolling about the shallows like we used to in Florida. That's ok.
You're right. The criteria for the Global City list was economical, political, cultural, & infrastructure. I didn't see VIBE listed. If vibe was a consideration San Francisco wouldn't have been in the same Beta grouping with Atlanta and DC, but rather on top of the list. That also explains why New Orleans and Austin aren't on there. But in their defense I can understand not being able to put a metric on vibe.
The Salsa/Performance Arts thing was just an example that there is more to Atlanta than what is in the tourist guidebook. Considering your pedigree I wasn't under the illusion that would be your interest.
So, when I was in India being a tourist and visiting family in Delhi and Chandigarh I asked some of them the same question. Most said they were just use to using the old name. As I'm sure you're aware (being of a certain segment of society in 1970's Bombay) the name Bombay was imposed on that city by the British. Maybe I'm being too shallow, but why would someone shun the idea of replacing a name that was given by those who subjugated that city. Especially since Mumbai was the original name? Maybe you're right... I don't get it.
NorCal or N. Atlanta? I have to admit that the Bay Area is on my short list of areas I'd live outside of Atlanta. And I know for a fact that the Bay Area doesn't have traffic, crime, racial tension, social divisiveness, or pan handlers.
Again best to you on which ever way life takes you. I'm sure you'll make the best decision for you and your family.
Since when does the Bay Area not have traffic, crime, or pan handlers etc. Traffic will be worse imo in the Bay and the panhandlers, especially in SF are are more visible and more aggressive than anywhere else in the country.
I am in a similar situation. I am in a hell called Indiana and a single parent of a growing boy. I feel that we will both waste away here and originally planned to move at the end of this year, but now I am itching to get away. I have wanted to live in California my entire life and I knew it wasn't just some misguided infatuation based on something I saw on T.V. when I actually went there and loved it- despite it's flaws. I felt so at peace. The first time I moved away from Indiana, I went to Houston. And even after moving away, I have plans now to relocate to Dallas. In the back of my mind I am constantly wondering, "What would happen if I just go straight to California?" I too want to move to San Francisco, but because I have a small child and very limited income, I am not able to do so. I thought about Sacramento, but I'm unwilling to drive an 1 1/2 to visit San Fran, and from what I hear . .. Sacramento is pretty boring. But will I be happy there regardless just because I'm in California? That's what I wonder. But to play it safe, again, I am moving to Dallas, finishing college, and then when I have the income I need, I plan to go to California. I wake up fretting every day if I am making a mistake and if I am repeating history that I'd rather have stay history.
From what I've read, it sounds as if you know in your heart what you really want to do, but you are scared of the what if. The only thing holding me back is money, and being that you have it . . . what's stopping you? For much of your life you've wanted to live in Cali, and now that you are in your 50s (I believe I read that in your OP), will you spend the remainder of your life wondering what if? When you are breathing your last and reflecting on your life, will you regret that you never took that chance? If you have considered all the bad California has to offer, and you feel as if it would be like swallowing a grain of salt in a mound of sugar . . . Go for it. Move.
I am miserable here. While there are certain things I like, most do not share my views and perspective on "the good life", and I find myself not at peace and a loner in my thoughts. I've tried to find the good about Indiana like I'm sure you do in Georgia, but when I take off my rose-colored glasses at night, I realize I've just been lying to myself and the desire to get away is still there.
Go. Like you said, you can always come back. Although you may never want to, you can. If you get there and for whatever reason you don't like it, all that you would have wasted would be time. That nagging desire to live in California will be gone, your heart will be clear, and you'll know exactly where to go from there. Show your daughter you trust her, and that her word means something to you. If she says she will come, believe she will come . . . even if you think she won't. Trust me, being a young lady myself . . . it would mean a lot.
You've only got one life to live. So someone got offended that you didn't think the city they live in is world-class. You can't agree with people about everything. True, it wasn't the most considerate thing to do (or the wisest) when asking residents of Atlanta for their very own helpful advice on making a move. But still, hold on to what you like, what you feel, what you think, what you perceive . . . that's what makes you YOU. You're the one that has to live your life everyday.
I live in the Bay Area and hate it! Yes, it is beautiful and diverse. But it is way too expensive and, frankly, not worth it. If you move here, plan to work for the rest of your life just to maintain a some-what middle-class standard of living. If you believe the intangibles are woth the price, go for it. Otherwise, stay put. I don't get to enjoy its beauty or attractions, as I am constantly working just so my family can maintain a decent quality of life. We are considering moving to your area. We want to work less and enjoy life more. Plus, we have a large family, and the Bay Area (and California in general) is not famliy friendly! Most people have dogs instead of kids, and two kids is thought of as a lot. Just some things to keep in mind.
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Northern CA thoughts
