What will your vote be on the Transportation Bill in 2012? (Atlanta: apartments, condo)

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by AcidSnake

Seriously?

Why does it always have to be a "my way or the highway" view on this issue? Did you not pay attention to the part where I said that we could have a combination of McMansions & Condos?

Why can't ITP have a careful land plan & the OTP be left as pristine exurbia & farmland? Would that not be a better solution so that everyone will get what they want?

I get my condo in Decatur, and you get your precious McMansion in Moreland or Winder or whatver OTP suburban/exurban haven you prefer. Rather than continue this stupid & incoherent process of people mindlessly fleeing further out & builders continually turning this whole state into a McMansion/paved road desert of gridlock, organize it!

It so easy a caveman can do it...

I'm not the one prescribing how people should build and live. No "my way" comments coming from me. I'm all about giving people freedom to live the way they want. The "my way" prescriptions are coming from elsewhere, and I don't belittle other lifestyles or use pejoratives to describe them.

Bottom line....most people live outside the City of Atlanta. Much of the corporate presence and jobs are outside the City of Atlanta. From a transportation POV, we need solutions to help people who don't live and don't work in the City of Atlanta. Some of those people may commute to Atlanta, and we need both highway and improved transit for them, but more importantly, we need options for people who live and work outside of the city. You may wish that everyone lived inside a small area in the city, but the reality is that's not the case. I prefer to deal with the reality.

BTW...should I start calling small condos or small homes "McCrackerboxes" ....would that be cool?

[noah]

Times have changed. The average house has doubled in size in a relatively short time. I know one couple who raised 2 kids in a 1,000 square foot house in the 90's. Now it is almost unheard of. Space is great when you have a need for it and the location fits your lifestyle. If these two factors don't apply it becomes less desirable for many.

Originally Posted by neil0311

A family of 5 (Mom/Dad and 3 children) cannot live in a 2 or 3 bedroom condo. BTW...I live right down the street from a national park where I can go hiking. Do you?

There is nothing noble about cramming 5 people in a small house for no reason. I grew up with my family in a small 3 bedroom apartment in NYC. It's not fun or quaint but just cramped. If I can give my children their own bedrooms and places to play, along with family space and offices for me and my wife, then there is no reason not to do so.

In my drive through Brookhaven today, I say some pretty large and nice homes, both detached and townhomes. Even people ITP like nice big homes for their families.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by noah

Times have changed. The average house has doubled in size in a relatively short time. I know one couple who raised 2 kids in a 1,000 square foot house in the 90's. Now it is almost unheard of. Space is great when you have a need for it and the location fits your lifestyle. If these two factors don't apply it becomes less desirable for many.

Absolutely agree. It's about doing what you want that fits your lifestyle. My argument is with people who want me to fit some prescribed lifestyle that fits their notion of "responsible" or other politically motivated idea.

[toll_booth]

As long as a sizable chunk of the referendum is for mass transit, then a vote of Yes is a vote of Progress.

[RainyRainyDay]

I'm all for urban living and for many years my spouse and I owned a condo in Vancouver, Canada's West End - one of the highest density neighborhoods in all of North America, although it doesn't beat Manhattan, of course. We loved it there.

However, we're now a three person family (with child) residing near the north-east corner of Cobb County, in an approx 1,800 square foot traditional "five, four and a door" home in a leafy 25 year-old subdivision in a top school zone. We don't commute ITP - my office is slightly OTP, in Sandy Springs.

I'm quite irked by the condescending tone and slanted language employed by some of the urban living enthusiasts on this thread. Apparently as a three person family we're not qualified to reside in the suburbs. If we'd produced a couple more kids it would be tolerated. And our house a McMansion? Really, McCrackerbox would be more like it.

I'd like to see less disrespectful language here, about suburban residents and their homes.

Back on topic, I'm keen to see improved transportation in metro Atlanta and would of course vote for a tax funding any reasonable plan.

[toll_booth]

The problem, RRD, is that Atlanta is notorious for suburban sprawl, for expanding outward as opposed to upward (though there has been a slight reversal in the last decade). As good as someone's intentions may be that move out to the suburbs--particularly the exurbs such as Cumming, Ball Ground, and Dallas--and commute into town, they are making a slight contribution to that problem. Multiply that contribution times a couple million, and we have a sizable dilemma on our hands.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

The problem, RRD, is that Atlanta is notorious for suburban sprawl, for expanding outward as opposed to upward (though there has been a slight reversal in the last decade).

Other cities do EXACTLY the same thing, but many are bounded by oceans, rivers, lakes or other natural limiting factors that don't allow a 360 degree expansion. Go to any major city in the US and you have suburbs expanding for many miles outside the downtown core. Only in Atlanta does it seem to take on this vitriole and constant harping. People here have to get over the inferiority complex.

[BobKovacs]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Other cities do EXACTLY the same thing, but many are bounded by oceans, rivers, lakes or other natural limiting factors that don't allow a 360 degree expansion. Go to any major city in the US and you have suburbs expanding for many miles outside the downtown core. Only in Atlanta does it seem to take on this vitriole and constant harping. People here have to get over the inferiority complex.

Exactly. I hear all this stuff about "Atlanta does nothing but sprawl", as if it's the only city in the country that do so. Having grown up in NJ, I can vouch for the fact that this isn't an Atlanta-exclusive phenomenon. I had plenty of friends and co-workers who lived in Pennsylvania, 60 miles and 2 states away from their offices in NYC, and yet no one saw this as some sort of urban catastrophe.

[RainyRainyDay]

Guys, I agree that suburban sprawl is a problem. However, you're not likely to succeed at persuading suburbanites of the charms of urban living by insulting their homes and lifestyle choices.

[noah]

True. But many areas have adopted comprehensive plans to have good growth and make sure the growth works overall. Seems that is the only missing piece in the Atlanta metro.

Originally Posted by BobKovacs

Exactly. I hear all this stuff about "Atlanta does nothing but sprawl", as if it's the only city in the country that do so. Having grown up in NJ, I can vouch for the fact that this isn't an Atlanta-exclusive phenomenon. I had plenty of friends and co-workers who lived in Pennsylvania, 60 miles and 2 states away from their offices in NYC, and yet no one saw this as some sort of urban catastrophe.