Interstate 3 ruled unfeasible (Savannah, Albany, Tifton: transportation, cities, county)

[therealpattman]

Originally Posted by tckr83

Connecting it to I-26 to get to Knoxville and beyond is reaching a bit... Interstates go straight and that's a spaghetti noodle of an interstate if i've ever seen one. That's going from point a, to point c, to point b. A bit of a detour...

Its going from Pt A to B to C like an interstate was designed to do, interstate 3 would be a detour.

[tckr83]

You look at I-3 from Savannah to Augusta to Greenville to Asheville to Knoxville to beyond and tell me how that is from A to B? It's a northwest, northeast, north, 2+ hours west and north again interstate. I've heard of spaghetti junction, but not spaghetti interstate...

There remains a swath of land NNW and SSE of Augusta (in and benifiting Georgia and not South Carolina), including Athens and Statesboro that sits and waits. Meanwhile, 985 extends Northeast and towards the Georgia mountains past lake Lanier and Gainesville (some of the same people against I-3 mind you)... 1/3 of the way to Asheville. Where's the outcry and opposition there?

How is a direct route from the port of Savannah to Augusta and to Knoxville a detour?

[Augusta Native]

why would they not just build it from Savannah to Augusta to Athens then follow U.S 29 to Ga 53 to I-75 in Calhoun, Ga and call it interstate 24 keeping the numbering system in place it can be dedicated as the 3rd I.D memorial expressway its entire length and all problems would be solved the entire road would be located in Ga.

[therealpattman]

Originally Posted by Augusta Native

why would they not just build it from Savannah to Augusta to Athens then follow U.S 29 to Ga 53 to I-75 in Calhoun, Ga and call it interstate 24 keeping the numbering system in place it can be dedicated as the 3rd I.D memorial expressway its entire length and all problems would be solved the entire road would be located in Ga.

It would only serve as a temporary fix to the problem. In my opinion Augusta needs interstate 14 from east to west and a true north-south route. It has even been mentioned in the latest Augusta Master Plan. And what is it with using state routes as interstate routes. If it is not controlled access it is not a true interstate. The goal of an interstate is to get traffic from Pt A to B fast and without stops.

[therealpattman]

Originally Posted by tckr83

You look at I-3 from Savannah to Augusta to Greenville to Asheville to Knoxville to beyond and tell me how that is from A to B? It's a northwest, northeast, north, 2+ hours west and north again interstate. I've heard of spaghetti junction, but not spaghetti interstate...

There remains a swath of land NNW and SSE of Augusta (in and benifiting Georgia and not South Carolina), including Athens and Statesboro that sits and waits. Meanwhile, 985 extends Northeast and towards the Georgia mountains past lake Lanier and Gainesville (some of the same people against I-3 mind you)... 1/3 of the way to Asheville. Where's the outcry and opposition there?

How is a direct route from the port of Savannah to Augusta and to Knoxville a detour?

The interstate 63 route would simply attach to interstate 26 then interstate 40 to Knoxville. I am using routes that already exist to save money.

[tckr83]

Originally Posted by dpatt.marine1

The interstate 63 route would simply attach to interstate 26 then interstate 40 to Knoxville. I am using routes that already exist to save money.

I get where your 63 runs, I've seen it many times. Fact remains that the route of "63" from Augusta to Knoxville would be in the shape of a giant boomerang... not the ideal route for an interstate. And I3 was poorly designed because it bypassed Augusta instead of coming into the city under your assessment... 63 bypasses Savannah completely and doesn't come into Greenville either if I remember correctly... is 63 poorly designed then for Savannah and Greenville also?

Your using existing roads to save money also doesn't really mesh well with your other point of thinking 50 years into the future... Go look at North Carolina's interstate system and see how far ahead they are of Georgia's... It's pathetic. One of the biggest East Coast seaports/tourist destinations and the states second largest city isn't "feasible", but Wilmington and Fayetteville, NC have comparable if not better interstate access than GA cities twice their size?

I'm telling you, Atlanta likes the current model and is doing everything possible to keep it that way... along with the fact that evironmentalists have buddies in Washington now, keeping progress at a stand still and damaging the state economy. It's one road in a mountain range that is how long? And has how many roads in it already? There will be another interstate built through the Appalachians that is "feasible", just not this one... you watch.

[therealpattman]

Originally Posted by tckr83

I get where your 63 runs, I've seen it many times. Fact remains that the route of "63" from Augusta to Knoxville would be in the shape of a giant boomerang... not the ideal route for an interstate. And I3 was poorly designed because it bypassed Augusta instead of coming into the city under your assessment... 63 bypasses Savannah completely and doesn't come into Greenville either if I remember correctly... is 63 poorly designed then for Savannah and Greenville also?

Your using existing roads to save money also doesn't really mesh well with your other point of thinking 50 years into the future... Go look at North Carolina's interstate system and see how far ahead they are of Georgia's... It's pathetic. One of the biggest East Coast seaports/tourist destinations and the states second largest city isn't "feasible", but Wilmington and Fayetteville, NC have comparable if not better interstate access than GA cities twice their size?

I'm telling you, Atlanta likes the current model and is doing everything possible to keep it that way... along with the fact that evironmentalists have buddies in Washington now, keeping progress at a stand still and damaging the state economy. It's one road in a mountain range that is how long? And has how many roads in it already? There will be another interstate built through the Appalachians that is "feasible", just not this one... you watch.

First, I-3 if you remember correctly I said was a good idea however it was designed with a flaw. One of the flaws was it bypassed Augusta, think about this, Savannah and Greenville each already have 2 interstates while Augusta has 1 so I designed I-63 using those already existing interstates to connect to each city. I-3 was doomed simply because it was designed to go over a series of mountains. You speak about my design being a boomerang, however if you look at interstates that already exists, it is relatively impossible to design a perfectly straight route thru a mountain. I agree with you that Atlanta would rather keep the interstate system the same simply because it would benefit them only. If Augusta was to get say interstate 14 and 63, that would mean 3 interstates for the metro area, Atlanta would lose out on a lot of industry simply because Augusta is not only closer to Savannah and it's expanding port but it is the gateway into South Carolina and we have an actual river. We also have a strong military and energy precence that Atlanta could never match. The point of it all is I agree with you, any additional interstates for the city would only do great things, I am trying to connect multiple locations not just 1 or 2. Good Points though.

[tckr83]

Originally Posted by dpatt.marine1

First, I-3 if you remember correctly I said was a good idea however it was designed with a flaw. One of the flaws was it bypassed Augusta, think about this, Savannah and Greenville each already have 2 interstates while Augusta has 1 so I designed I-63 using those already existing interstates to connect to each city. I-3 was doomed simply because it was designed to go over a series of mountains. You speak about my design being a boomerang, however if you look at interstates that already exists, it is relatively impossible to design a perfectly straight route thru a mountain. I agree with you that Atlanta would rather keep the interstate system the same simply because it would benefit them only. If Augusta was to get say interstate 14 and 63, that would mean 3 interstates for the metro area, Atlanta would lose out on a lot of industry simply because Augusta is not only closer to Savannah and it's expanding port but it is the gateway into South Carolina and we have an actual river. We also have a strong military and energy precence that Atlanta could never match. The point of it all is I agree with you, any additional interstates for the city would only do great things, I am trying to connect multiple locations not just 1 or 2. Good Points though.

Yes, but as you say I3 was flawed b/c it bypasses Augusta... isn't 63 flawed as well b/c it bypasses Greenville and Savannah? And interstates have been through mountains in the past, I don't think the DOT and private contractors have regressed in their construction abilities recently by any means... its never been more possible to build an interstate through/over a mountain. And I mention it as a boomerang because you get to Asheville and go 2+ hours straight West, but for it being a N/S interstate that's a flaw in my opinion. It is true that interstates through mountains aren't straight by any means, but they go in a general direction. 26 from Asheville to 81 isn't straight by any means as it's a relatively newer interstate... but it still in no way can compare to 40 from Asheville to Knoxville.

A direct route from Savannah to Augusta and a (for the most part) generally direct route from Augusta to Knoxville will be quicker than 63... it still connects us to the I-85 corridor very close to Greenville/Anderson/Clemson and allows a much more appealing route to the area for the heavily populated states above Tennessee and Kentucky... much more so than the existing interstates.

I3 is no more flawed than 63... And I see much more of an immediate need for I3 than I do I14 in terms of what is best for the Augusta area. I think I14 will be a low traffic interstate, convenient to avoid Atlanta, but lets be honest here... how much commerce do you see going on that interstate compared to I-3?

[amlovingit]

I was talking to a truck driver today at work. Just so happen we got to talking about how bad we need a interstate that connect savannah to augusta. He said it took him 2hrs 30min to make it to Augusta and that with out traffic. Another thing he told me if they had interstate that connect the two cities it will only take him a good hour drive.

[Augusta Native]

Originally Posted by dpatt.marine1

It would only serve as a temporary fix to the problem. In my opinion Augusta needs interstate 14 from east to west and a true north-south route. It has even been mentioned in the latest Augusta Master Plan. And what is it with using state routes as interstate routes. If it is not controlled access it is not a true interstate. The goal of an interstate is to get traffic from Pt A to B fast and without stops.

I was only speaking of upgrading the route to interstate standards similar to what the state of Mississippi has done with U.S 45 and MS state hwy 45 between Tupelo and Meridian, MS a route that has been upgraded to interstate standards with limited federal funding and is only 10 miles shorter that a route between Augusta and Savannah also U.S 78 which was also partially upgraded before being designated as I-22. I will not even bring NC into the discussion a state that is more comparable to the population of GA and if Mississippi a state that many consider to be backwards can accomplish this and Georgia which is competing with NC and Fl to be the king of the new south can't leaves me to wonder why would this state continue to try and complete an interstate that would have to rely on another states approval why not complete the route completely within its borders and say the He!! with SC, NC and TN.