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Old 06-30-2010, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Carefree Arizona
127 posts, read 433,273 times
Reputation: 85

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Quote:
Originally Posted by eileenkeeney View Post
My appraisal came out with more square footage than the tax records indicate.
But I think they forgot to subtract for the closet space, and the space taken up by the thickness of the walls.
I think they just did some simple math based on the measurements.
But when I list it for sale, I am going to use their number (and state that it is per the appraisal).
In fact, I will get the tax record corrected, maybe right before I sell.
Exterior wall measurements should be the source for detached single family residences. Condominiums are usually measured from interior walls. I was just curious when you mentioned closets if you meant storage closets that can only be accessed from the exterior and are used for storage or sometimes house the air handler or water heater. Appraisal measurements are usually exterior wall measurements and would include bedroom closets as they are part of the gross livable area. There usually is a slight variation anywhere from 15 up to 50 square feet difference from tax records due to wall thickness or inclusion of storage closets that can only be accessed from the exterior.
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Old 06-30-2010, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
653 posts, read 1,787,719 times
Reputation: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by CareFreeAZ View Post
Exterior wall measurements should be the source for detached single family residences. Condominiums are usually measured from interior walls. I was just curious when you mentioned closets if you meant storage closets that can only be accessed from the exterior and are used for storage or sometimes house the air handler or water heater. Appraisal measurements are usually exterior wall measurements and would include bedroom closets as they are part of the gross livable area. There usually is a slight variation anywhere from 15 up to 50 square feet difference from tax records due to wall thickness or inclusion of storage closets that can only be accessed from the exterior.
I mean inside closets, not outside storage.
They did not include the garage, which is where the hot water heater is.

I won't know if the measurements were taken from the inside or outside, until I can measure it myself.
But I can see how they drew the picture and then broke it up into rectangles and added the segments, and can see that there are no closets drawn in.
The heater (and air intake) is in the main house, that is not drawn in.

Their number is almost 100 sq ft higher than the tax record.
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Old 06-30-2010, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Carefree Arizona
127 posts, read 433,273 times
Reputation: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by eileenkeeney View Post
I mean inside closets, not outside storage.
They did not include the garage, which is where the hot water heater is.

I won't know if the measurements were taken from the inside or outside, until I can measure it myself.
But I can see how they drew the picture and then broke it up into rectangles and added the segments, and can see that there are no closets drawn in.
The heater (and air intake) is in the main house, that is not drawn in.

Their number is almost 100 sq ft higher than the tax record.

There is an appraisal measuring guide that is called ANSI(American National Standards Institute) Standards that is the standard for single-family residential buildings. If you were to re-measure yourself, you would measure from the exterior of the home. The garage would of course be subtracted out from main living area. Closets are part of the livable area within the home and should be included. Most appraisers measure the floor plan from the exterior and then label the sketch with the appropriate rooms. If it is a two story home something to look for would be making sure the staircase and midlevel landing area are not counted twice. If the appraiser has measured the main floor via exterior walls that area would include the staircase and the second floor should not include that same staircase. If you cannot access to a portion of the home from the interior but only through an exterior access point(i.e. Guest Quarters) than that portion is not included in the main livable area.

Measuring from the exterior would be the correct way but it does sound like this person might have tried to do interior dimensions on the rooms etc.
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Old 07-01-2010, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Collin County
92 posts, read 290,400 times
Reputation: 33
Default new appraisal “Providers List” many in experienced

If you cannot access to a portion of the home from the interior but only through an exterior access point(i.e. Guest Quarters) than that portion is not included in the main livable area.

**In the past year, I have seen many in acurate aprraisals come up (3 times) with homes that have a guest quarter which is accessible through a master closet hallway and/or a separate door through the covered patio. The appraiser only gave half value to this lovely suite with a bedroom & full bath suite.
**Now, there are many odd guest homes- Remodeled tool sheds & primitive log cabins…that are completely separate from the main structure & home.

In addition, with the new appraisal “Providers List” many in experienced appraisers are being sent to areas out of their expertise… Volume track home appraisers vs. experience appraisers for hill country homes with water & acreage. I just went through this 2 weeks ago!
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
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Old 07-01-2010, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Corvallis, Oregon
653 posts, read 1,787,719 times
Reputation: 276
Measuring from the outside seems less accurate than from the inside.
Does space taken up with insulation count as living space?

Suppose the house has thick stone siding all around? (not that mine does, that would have been very practical in this area, but I rarely see it, except in huge houses.)

But now I am curious.
When I move in, I will measure, from both inside and outside. Then I will know how they did it.

My appraisal came out to EXACTLY the price I am paying, so that is a bit suspicious (since the appraisal is based on the larger sq footage they came out with, as opposed to the tax record sq footage).
The appraisal also does not take into account that this house backs up to a semi-main street (which does not have much traffic now, but could have at some future time), with some ugly electric wires right in view, making it less attractive than a similar house across the street.
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Old 07-01-2010, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Carefree Arizona
127 posts, read 433,273 times
Reputation: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by BichonGirl View Post
**In the past year, I have seen many in acurate aprraisals come up (3 times) with homes that have a guest quarter which is accessible through a master closet hallway and/or a separate door through the covered patio. The appraiser only gave half value to this lovely suite with a bedroom & full bath suite.
**Now, there are many odd guest homes- Remodeled tool sheds & primitive log cabins…that are completely separate from the main structure & home.

In addition, with the new appraisal “Providers List” many in experienced appraisers are being sent to areas out of their expertise… Volume track home appraisers vs. experience appraisers for hill country homes with water & acreage. I just went through this 2 weeks ago!
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
That doesn't sound good. In AZ, if access can be gained through the main living area of the home, than the guest suite area should be considered part of the gross livable area of the home. This is barring that it has heating/cooling, electrical etc. Here in AZ you sometimes have guest casitas that share a common wall but access can only be gained by going outside the house through the front court yard or patio area. If this is the case, it is separated and not counted in the main gross livable area but given separate value. The value given is not similar to the per square foot basis as the main home but given value based on paired sales analysis. Basically your looking at comparables with and without similar guest casitas and what value or difference there is between similar homes with similar amenities and similar guest casitas versus homes without guest casitas.

I don't think there would be any big difference in the way things are done in Austin versus Phoenix, but we have the same problem with inexperienced appraisers doing assignments that they are not qualified to do. The times I have been out to visit Austin, I was looking at alot of the different neighborhoods to get a feel of what is going on. My wife has been interviewing for a really good opportunity in Austin and relocation is a possibility.
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Old 07-01-2010, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Carefree Arizona
127 posts, read 433,273 times
Reputation: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by eileenkeeney View Post
Measuring from the outside seems less accurate than from the inside.
Does space taken up with insulation count as living space?

Suppose the house has thick stone siding all around? (not that mine does, that would have been very practical in this area, but I rarely see it, except in huge houses.)

But now I am curious.
When I move in, I will measure, from both inside and outside. Then I will know how they did it.

My appraisal came out to EXACTLY the price I am paying, so that is a bit suspicious (since the appraisal is based on the larger sq footage they came out with, as opposed to the tax record sq footage).
The appraisal also does not take into account that this house backs up to a semi-main street (which does not have much traffic now, but could have at some future time), with some ugly electric wires right in view, making it less attractive than a similar house across the street.
Most likely your tax assesor number is the actual physical footprint or area under roof. Exterior measurement is usually the norm. Most appraiser would know if it's 2x4 or 2x6 or block construction and know when actual stone or cultured stone facings are used and would subtract the thickness out. One thing to remember, appraisals are point in time opinions of value with the effective date being the date the appraisal inspection occured.

We know that backing to a minor arterial road with traffic observed at the time of inspection is less desirable to a similar property that does not back an arterial road. Adjustments are usually based on pairing similar type comparable sales that back minor arterial roads versus similar comparables that are not located on a minor arterial road and noting the difference.
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Old 07-01-2010, 07:16 PM
 
Location: SW Austin & Wimberley
6,330 posts, read 17,982,821 times
Reputation: 5531
Quote:
Originally Posted by eileenkeeney View Post
Measuring from the outside seems less accurate than from the inside.
It's much more consistent because it's easier to measure and less prone to error. Therefore, if all homes are being compared based on a common measurement standard, then it's apples/apples, whether or not the exact interior sqft of each home is accurately represented or not.

Quote:
Does space taken up with insulation count as living space?
Yes, if it's in a wall and that wall width is not being subtracted from the sqft figure, which it won't be.

Quote:
Suppose the house has thick stone siding all around? (not that mine does, that would have been very practical in this area, but I rarely see it, except in huge houses.)
See above. Doesn't matter. Better to have all/most homes equally puffed in sqft size than to have widely varying representations of the interior nooks and crannies.

Quote:
But now I am curious. When I move in, I will measure, from both inside and outside. Then I will know how they did it.
Quote:
My appraisal came out to EXACTLY the price I am paying, so that is a bit suspicious (since the appraisal is based on the larger sq footage they came out with, as opposed to the tax record sq footage).
Appraisers generally will come up with a range, and if the house falls within the range, they assign the purchase price. Otherwise, if they assigned a value $736 below contract price, for example, it screws up the deal. And if they assign $736 above, who cares? It saves everyone a bunch of grief and heartache if the value is simply the same as the contract price. Maybe the appraiser in this thread can further elaborate. We do often have them above or below, but always by more than chump change, which tells me there is a range system being operated within.

Quote:
The appraisal also does not take into account that this house backs up to a semi-main street (which does not have much traffic now, but could have at some future time), with some ugly electric wires right in view, making it less attractive than a similar house across the street.
Those are not relevant unless they significantly impact the CURRENT value of the home.

Steve
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Old 07-20-2011, 12:58 AM
 
2 posts, read 2,848 times
Reputation: 10
Default how to get the tax record corrected?

Could you tell me how to get the tax record corrected? Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eileenkeeney View Post
My appraisal came out with more square footage than the tax records indicate.
But I think they forgot to subtract for the closet space, and the space taken up by the thickness of the walls.
I think they just did some simple math based on the measurements.
But when I list it for sale, I am going to use their number (and state that it is per the appraisal).
In fact, I will get the tax record corrected, maybe right before I sell.
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Old 07-21-2011, 09:21 AM
AGA
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
729 posts, read 2,697,840 times
Reputation: 215
Well said Austin-Steve. As a former appraiser I would also like to point out that the contract for sale also has a "voice" and the fact that a buyer is willing to pay a certain amount for a property is considered as sort of a "comp". As you say, there is often a range and that is when we listen to that "voice". If there is a range of value surrounding the offer, that voice speaks louder.
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