Metrorail is Awesome (Austin, Cedar Park, Leander: to rent, rail, vehicle)

[oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots]

Originally Posted by love roses

Well, I think one good thing coming out of all of this is that Georgetown is definitely on board with getting a line started and is in talks currently to see which of 2 companies will give them the best deal. One of those companies is supposed to add stops near Dell diamond and some in Pflugerville as well There was a story in one of the Community Impact Papers about this.

Thank you loveroses for that info!! That's great!! Now, if they would only get the Y done sooner!!

[twange]

Originally Posted by riaelise

...the subway was started at the turn of the century, for example, so this is actually pretty awesome for me to watch Austin grow as a city and watch its mass transportation system evolve.

...Rome wasn't built in a day, and I think that it's a beginning. Maybe the new leadership of Metro will refine things based on feedback.

Valid points for sure and I'm really glad for your positivity - it will be needed when the city tries to pass a major infrastructure plan (hopefully) in 2011.

I'm critical of the system not because I won't use PT or don't think my tax dollars should go towards mass transit - quite the opposite. I would use it for 90% of my transportation needs if I could. I just think Cap Metros inability to implement a quality bus system sort of precludes them from planning proper rail infrastructure. They just seem incompetent and I don't trust them. The drama surrounding this Red Line and its construction has really got people down on PT projects in Austin. That really bums me out because when the next project gets put on the ballot, folks will remember how this went down.

Oh, and for those of you expecting development to magically spring up around the now vacant areas that the Red Line passes through (like past Howard Lane to Leander), the history of other projects strongly suggests that it works the other way around: the most successful lines are built around already heavily used corridors (say for example, downtown Austin to the Dell campus/Hester's Crossing or up through the UT campus on Guadalupe from 19th to 34th). Once these routes get served, building connections and branches can start taking form. Imagine if downtown Austin were connected to Round Rock via commuter train, with spurs to Hutto, Cedar Park, Pflugerville etc...That would most certainly be an attractive alternative for thousands of daily commuters and/or people who just want to go into town for the day. After all RR has over 100K now, Cedar Park 62K, Hutto pushing 20K and Pflugerville 40K. That's a healthy chunk of the greater Austin metro area.

And in my opinion, Guadalupe around the campus should be pedestrian, bike and rail only. Hell, you can't get through there anyway.

But these are two different things: Commuter rail (like to RR) and urban rail (through the city itself). These are very different needs and wouldn't use the same technology at all (different speed, capacity etc...) I guess if I had to choose, I would go with serving the city of Austin first and then implement the satellite towns/suburbs. But ONLY IF they were willing to help pay for it. Austin alone is paying for the Redline and it gets very little service.

[Austin97]

Originally Posted by DenverBrian

Or as low as $27.6M/mile if you do it right, as Denver did.

<<Installed by Denver's Regional Transportation District (RTD), the LRT project cost approximately US$880 million (of which about two-thirds was covered by federal grants). The line's unit capital cost works out to about $46 million per mile ($29 million/km).>>

Feds covered 2/3, but still 46 million/mile

[mimimomx3]

Originally Posted by riaelise

Wow, who put the lemons in your coffee? It's not like I'm making love to Capital Metro simply because I like Metrorail. Seriously, dude, lighten up. You ain't the only one paying those taxes.

BTW, I'm cool with differing opinions. I appreciate what y'all are saying. I'm commenting on MY personal enjoyment of the Metrorail and how I would really like to see rail service take off here in the Austin metropolitan area. Convoluted mess, maybe, but I think it's promising. Just my opinion as a rider, of course. I frankly admit that I never lived in a city that didn't have train service...the subway was started at the turn of the century, for example, so this is actually pretty awesome for me to watch Austin grow as a city and watch its mass transportation system evolve.

I agree with folks who say that more routes are needed, that stations are out of the way, that the implementation was a mess, etc. But I am the optimist (for once) with this. Rome wasn't built in a day, and I think that it's a beginning. Maybe the new leadership of Metro will refine things based on feedback.

BTW, took the Metrorail again today. Saw the same people as yesterday. I don't know them, they don't know me, but they seem like "regulars". Kind of a good feeling, seeing the same commuters daily. Sort of a familiarity if you will. Maybe I'm high on the twinkie dust, who knows.

ETA: Plus walking from the Metrorail to my job on Congress is great walking. Vs. simply getting out of your car. Burns negligible calories, but still. Also, thanks to adhering to the rail schedule, I tend not to do unnecessary overtime and find myself home at a consistent time.

Again, congratulatons on your commute. DS tried to take the bus from our house in NWHills to 6th and Congress. The time it would have taken? TWO HOURS- for 4 miles. Before Cap Metro went building mulitmillion dollar trains for a handful or people, it might have straightened up the urban bus routes. Just a thought.

[DenverBrian]

Originally Posted by Austin97

<<Installed by Denver's Regional Transportation District (RTD), the LRT project cost approximately US$880 million (of which about two-thirds was covered by federal grants). The line's unit capital cost works out to about $46 million per mile ($29 million/km).>>

Feds covered 2/3, but still 46 million/mile

I believe the cost you quote includes all of T-Rex, which was a complete rebuild and widening of I-25 alongside the SE corridor light rail line. No fair including highway build dollars with the light rail build dollars.

[verybadgnome]

Originally Posted by twange

Valid points for sure and I'm really glad for your positivity - it will be needed when the city tries to pass a major infrastructure plan (hopefully) in 2011.


Oh, and for those of you expecting development to magically spring up around the now vacant areas that the Red Line passes through (like past Howard Lane to Leander), the history of other projects strongly suggests that it works the other way around: the most successful lines are built around already heavily used corridors (say for example, downtown Austin to the Dell campus/Hester's Crossing or up through the UT campus on Guadalupe from 19th to 34th).

I've seen it work the other way around. For example the orange line that runs through suburban northern Virginia has transformed many sections of Arlington county from older single family home neighborhoods to townhomes, condos, and mixed used development. The whole GMU campus in Arlington and Ballston shopping center were built after metro. This area is not on Rte. 50, Rte. 7, or I-66 the major corridors of the area.

"The corridor, containing 7.6 percent of the county’s land area, generates 33 percent of its property tax revenue. The jump in the value of the corridor’s real estate — now assessed at $9 billion — has helped Arlington obtain an AAA bond rating and set its property tax rate lower than that of any other major jurisdiction in northern Virginia."

Arlington, Va.’s Smart Growth Journey: Documentary on D.C. Area TOD « Crossroads

The key thing you need is an area that is ripe for redevelopment, one that has reached the end of its lifecycle.

[neddy]

Didn't Round Rock opt out of Capital Metro at one time same as Cedar Park? Why put a rail line in an area not willing to pay for bus service? Leander voters gave a thumbs up and pays into the system...way back in the planning and voting stages did anyone else want a train station and have tracks for the rail? Even to the south of town like Kyle or Buda? I have no clue since I lived in SA at the time. I know that things are in the planning stages to build stuff around the Leander station. ACC just bought land by the station. I am happy to have the station out here. Went to down with the kids spent the day down there came back. So easy and fun also.

[twange]

Originally Posted by neddy

Didn't Round Rock opt out of Capital Metro at one time same as Cedar Park? Why put a rail line in an area not willing to pay for bus service? Leander voters gave a thumbs up and pays into the system...way back in the planning and voting stages did anyone else want a train station and have tracks for the rail? Even to the south of town like Kyle or Buda? I have no clue since I lived in SA at the time. I know that things are in the planning stages to build stuff around the Leander station. ACC just bought land by the station. I am happy to have the station out here. Went to down with the kids spent the day down there came back. So easy and fun also.

That's why I mentioned that those areas should get service ONLY if they're willing to help pay for it. But the reality is that those crucial communities (RR and CP) are needed to be part of the long-term plan since they contain so many people who consider themselves "part of" Austin.

It's nice that the Leander community is thinking long-term but sorry, that doesn't qualify them strategically to be the terminus of the first line of a commuter rail system. Especially at such a crucial time in Austin's transportation evolution. There are so many areas in Austin that have already reached high density levels, that would greatly benefit from a density-oriented, multiple stop neighborhood system (like light rail or streetcar - NOT commuter rail which is faster and connects points much farther apart). Commuter rail is certainly part of the overall equation but the urban core should have been served first while CM and the politicos worked out the details of serving the outer communities needs.

Leander got that line because:

a.) They were willing
b.) Cap Metro wanted to used existing track regardless of where it actually went. That's like buying something that's on sale regardless of whether or not it will be of use to you. You are seduced by the bargain despite actually needing the item.

http://www.austinpost.org/files/Capi...Red%20Line.jpg

Had CM diverted the Redline from Howard lane, straight up MoPac to 45 E and terminated at or near the Dell Campus, I think most people would think that was viable and it would have changed the perception of this project. Then after that line showed success, extend branches out to Ceadr Park, Leander, Pflugerville etc...Granted, RR would have had to get on board but that's what politicians and CEOs are for: getting this stuff done, Of course there lies much of the problem.

[neddy]

Twange,
Since RR was not included in CM service area I am gonna guess that is why Leander got the station and not the Dell Campus area. Mr. is an IBMer and takes the rail to work whenever he can. The Kramer stop is about 1.2 mile from IBM and from what I hear plenty of IBMers take the rail from Lakeline. I have driven into the Lakeline station and the parking lot was full. CM had to start somewhere and this is as good as anyplace esp since RR was not in the mix at the time. In those central areas I don't think there are street car or rail lines already in place and so that would have been a huge cost and I am sure that the oldtimers in the area would not be supportive if their streets being torn up for the sake of progress with perhaps older trees coming down etc. Heck my mom grew up in Terrytown and they all hated when MOPAC was first though of in the 40s.

[UTHORNS96]

Glad to see it has finally benefited somebody.

I really hope they get more significant routes soon.