SH130 to be the new I-35? (Austin, Georgetown: to live in, moving, pollution)

[homeinatx]

Originally Posted by feconi

It's so easy to make ill-thought utopian statements like "live near where you work, change your habits, reduce car dependency," etc. What other mode of transportation do you suggest? The bus, which has limited service and is subject to the same traffic as a single passenger vehicle? Bike? MetroRail?! This ain't NYC with a multimodal transit network--this is small-town, small-minded Austin that was built to cater to the automobile (like all other Texas cities) but has a few more bike lanes than other cities its size.

Moreover, not everyone can afford to live in central Austin, and not everyone should have to want to live in central Austin. Other close-in areas like east Austin are cheaper and on the upswing, but with the major downside that many of the schools are abysmal and crime is relatively high. Even if everyone wanted to live in central Austin, your kind has resisted density along our corridors and there simply isn't an adequate housing supply for the many tens of thousands of downtown workers and their families.

You say you care about Austin? That's a flat-out lie. In reality, you and your ilk are the ones that actually don't care at all about the city's welfare, but rather care about fighting ANY development and density so you can maintain your slice of small-town hippie charm near the core of a big and growing city of over 800,000. If you and your kind truly cared about the city, you would realize how vital these corridors are to its economic vitality and you would want to address their severe congestion swiftly and effectively.

Fortunately for the "rest of us," things like the downtown condo boom and Formula 1 are proof that Austin is going to move forward regardless of whether we have your support or not. And if it means sacrificing some "character" for the greater good--so be it. I know well the mentality behind this "character" (you being a great example) and it is not befitting of a big, up-and-coming city. A little less of it would be an absolutely wonderful thing for Austin.

No, you mischaracterize me. I live in a downtown condo. I think Austin is MUCH, MUCH better than the Austin I moved to in 2001. Paving over the core of the city to ease traffic would totally undo the gains of the last ten years.

[love roses]

My husband and I wouldn't have a shorter commute because we already work close to where we live, out here in the suburbs. I don't know about everyone else, but we did live in a more expensive, smaller house in a city center (Denver). We DID love living close to everything but eventually, after our daughter was born, decide that we didn't like living on a postage stamp and not having quite enough room for all of us. If our jobs were actually downtown, and we could find a house for 200k or less, with a good sized yard (bigger than a stamp) we'd do it. It's not every suburbanites fault that 35 and mopac need work. People from all over the place drive on it.

When we were in Denver, they did some expansion of 25. No neighborhoods were demolished, but there were some homes along the freeway who did lose a good chunk of their backyards for it. The city put up huge walls to block them, but it didn't make them that much happier. I've been up and down 35. There aren't any neighborhoods right along it. There are a few lofts East of 35 and a touch of that neighborhood is visible, but I doubt it would be demolished.

[TexasHorseLady]

feconi, looking at it solely from the perspective of what's best for Austin, the city, I'd say that killing the goose that laid the golden egg in obeisance to making it possible for people who moved here specifically because of the lure that Austin has would significantly damage the city's future prospects. If you turn Austin into Anywhere, USA, just because you crave speed, speed, and more speed (to get where, one wonders?), then what's the point of anyone moving here in the first place? It certainly won't be, as it evidently was for some, to try to turn where they moved to into where they moved from, because that will already have been done by those who moved here before them with that aim.

Relax, learn to take your time, learn to plan ahead, or live closer to your job (or maybe find a job, if you can, that isn't downtown - which should be most of the jobs in Austin, really). Learn alternate routes, learn to enjoy your time in traffic, telecommute if you can manage it, there's all sorts of ways to solve problems besides burying them in concrete (which is the most mindless and short-sighted response, really, when you really look at it). Including not looking at them as a problem (though I realize that's WAY too far out of the box - or the traffic lane lines - for some).

Instant gratification - it's not all its cut out to be.

[feconi]

Originally Posted by homeinatx

No, you mischaracterize me. I live in a downtown condo. I think Austin is MUCH, MUCH better than the Austin I moved to in 2001. Paving over the core of the city to ease traffic would totally undo the gains of the last ten years.

In what universe is widening a freeway by a couple of lanes "paving over the core of the city?"

I don't care where you live. I live in a downtown apartment, so what?! Just because you live downtown doesn't mean you have our city's best interests in mind--indeed, your misguided philosophy is what is toxic for Austin.

Of course Austin is better now than it was in 2001. It has grown by nearly half a million people since then. It is developing into a big city and is beginning to attract arts, culture, and other amenities commensurate with its size.

[TexasHorseLady]

feconi, why did you choose to move to Austin? And when? And where did you move here from?

[feconi]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

feconi, looking at it solely from the perspective of what's best for Austin, the city, I'd say that killing the goose that laid the golden egg in obeisance to making it possible for people who moved here specifically because of the lure that Austin has would significantly damage the city's future prospects. If you turn Austin into Anywhere, USA, just because you crave speed, speed, and more speed (to get where, one wonders?), then what's the point of anyone moving here in the first place? It certainly won't be, as it evidently was for some, to try to turn where they moved to into where they moved from, because that will already have been done by those who moved here before them with that aim.

Relax, learn to take your time, learn to plan ahead, or live closer to your job (or maybe find a job, if you can, that isn't downtown - which should be most of the jobs in Austin, really). Learn alternate routes, learn to enjoy your time in traffic, telecommute if you can manage it, there's all sorts of ways to solve problems besides burying them in concrete (which is the most mindless and short-sighted response, really, when you really look at it). Including not looking at them as a problem (though I realize that's WAY too far out of the box - or the traffic lane lines - for some).

Just like a broken record, here again you suggest there's "all sorts of ways" to solve the problem--NONE of which will work in the real world. "Learn to enjoy your time in traffic?!" With arguments of this caliber, my posts are nearly rendered obsolete.

Just like with homeinatx and your previous posts, it is clear that your kind does not understand the scope or implications of our congestion issues--only that you reject, simply for the sake of doing so, any attempt to address these issues and progress as a city. This embodies the small-minded mentality I continue to make reference to.

With meandering and borderline meaningless statements laced with silly buzzwords and hyperbole, you refuse to provide any concrete basis for your objections and erode whatever credibility your position might have.

Still waiting on a concrete answer as to why widening I-35 from six to ten lanes without increasing the right-of-way will create a "paved nirvana" void of any character and lacking any semblance of an urban fabric...

[feconi]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

feconi, why did you choose to move to Austin? And when? And where did you move here from?

This is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

[TexasHorseLady]

Still waiting for an answer to how you're going to widen a road without increasing the right-of-way. Or building in such a way that the noise and air pollution for the neighborhoods adjoining the new 10-lane freeway that was a 6-lane one before will not be oppressive, never mind the light pollution from the street lights and the headlights.

The reason I asked where you lived before you came here and when you came here had to do, by the way, with trying to understand where you're coming from, what comfort zone you're speaking from (which is to say, a concrete example of what you're used to that you obviously think should be here rather than what was here when you moved here).

[feconi]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Still waiting for an answer to how you're going to widen a road without increasing the right-of-way. Or building in such a way that the noise and air pollution for the neighborhoods adjoining the new 10-lane freeway that was a 6-lane one before will not be oppressive, never mind the light pollution from the street lights and the headlights.

You never asked, but I'll answer: because there's enough room to.

The only difficult part will be the double-deck stretch, but that can also be addressed. This was discussed above and you are welcome to revisit those posts.

What's absolutely hysterical regarding your reply is the mention of pollution. This is gonna blow your mind:

When cars are stuck in traffic burning fuel, they actually create more pollution than if they were cruising down the highway at normal speed. That's right--for a given volume of traffic, congestion creates more pollution due to exhaust emissions than free-flowing highways. Believe it or not, the traffic demand in the near future will remain the same whether the freeway is 6 or 10 lanes. The amount of light "pollution" will not change. (Seriously, how do you come up with this stuff?!)

You must've missed the part where I explicitly said I live adjacent to the I-35 corridor. Trust me--six to ten lanes isn't going to make a difference to my neighborhood's character. It will reduce pollution due to emissions. It will reduce traffic fatalities (of which there have been two, in separate incidents, right outside my complex in the past year). What was your argument again?! Something about "paved nirvana?" Right.

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

The reason I asked where you lived before you came here and when you came here had to do, by the way, with trying to understand where you're coming from, what comfort zone you're speaking from (which is to say, a concrete example of what you're used to that you obviously think should be here rather than what was here when you moved here).

Irrelevant.

[homeinatx]

Originally Posted by feconi

In what universe is widening a freeway by a couple of lanes "paving over the core of the city?"

I don't care where you live. I live in a downtown apartment, so what?! Just because you live downtown doesn't mean you have our city's best interests in mind--indeed, your misguided philosophy is what is toxic for Austin.

Of course Austin is better now than it was in 2001. It has grown by nearly half a million people since then. It is developing into a big city and is beginning to attract arts, culture, and other amenities commensurate with its size.

The problem is that highway runs through the core of the city. 2 lanes on either side of I35 and Mopac would cause irreparable damage. Your previous post implied that I was a knee-jerk anti-development person who would hate downtown condos etc. I don't. The sooner high rises are built on all those retarded parking lots the better. That is the only reason I mentioned where I live. I am all for urban infill, increased density, and Austin becoming a real city. A cursory glance at urban planning history shows that massive highway construction through urban cores destroys cities, and creates unsustainable suburban sprawl. Where do you think the sub-prime crisis came from?

Austin mostly managed to dodge the bullet of highways destroying its inner ring of neighborhoods though Clarksville was largely obliterated by Mopac. Move the highway to 130. Austin has a chance not to repeat the failures of sunbelt development. It has been a mixed bag, and we do need better road infrastructure but not at the expense of the pockets of urbanity we have.