02-09-2011, 12:45 PM
Location: Round Rock, TX
39 posts, read
96,662 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by
XLadylawX
Do you mind disclosing your community so we can all avoid moving there in the future?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
maastrichtian
I also use Action Propane, and I also have been spending on average $450/month for the past three months, one fill up per month in the winter. 1-2 fill-ups for the rest of the year. So I'm looking at probably $2000+ per year. We have no leak, and we have our own tank. It is... RIDICULOUS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tibbar
I would absolutely base where I lived on the price of utilities. If I lived in the area the original poster does I would seriously consider switching to all electric.
I would absolutely consider every cost to me when living somewhere. Some people avoid communities based on HOA fees. Some avoid high tax areas. There's nothing wrong with avoiding a neighborhood due to high utility costs.
At the end of the year those costs add up so you'd might as well tack that on to the sales price of the home!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gorfml
$490! wasn't even that cold last month. can't wait for next months bill. gg sharp/amerigas!
Curious to know your annual propane bill?
02-13-2011, 12:19 PM
3,438 posts, read
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Reputation: 3683
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tibbar
I would absolutely base where I lived on the price of utilities. If I lived in the area the original poster does I would seriously consider switching to all electric.
The HOA is used to compel homeowners to install and use gas appliances under threat of fine and foreclosure on their homes. Just another example evidencing that HOAs do not and never have preserved value for the homeowners. The HOA is used to preserve value in your home for the HOA vendors.
These central gas systems are propane systems. Propane is economically unregulated - which means that the vendor can charge whatever fees they want to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
HappyTexan
And they get no choice at all ?
These are all HOA-burdened properties (see note above). Typically there are one or more 30,000 gallon propane tanks distributed in or adjacent the subdivision. The gas company and developer enter into a mutually beneficial financial arrangement - part of which is implementing restrictive covenants obligating homeowners to install and use propane gas-fired appliances including water heaters, kitchen ranges, and furnaces. If you don't do this you will be threatened with fines, litigation, and foreclosure on the home.
When you walk into a home and see gas appliances - you might initially think "that's nice". Buyers are not aware of the scheme.
The original SUG systems provide for homeowners to pay for a "waiver fee" to avoid implementing these gas appliances. That fee was a few thousand dollars. However, the HOA will still be used to threaten you - particularly in a developer-controlled subdivision due to the profit sharing or royalty arrangement between the developer and the central gas vendor. SUG systems never required you to buy gas from them or prohibited you from installing your own tank. That was accomplished by the developer controlled HOA and "architectural committees."
The post-SUG systems tend to be in subdivisions where the developer specifically prohibits you from being able to get gas from anywhere else and requires you (via restrictive covenant) to enter into a service "contract" with the gas vendor. The terms of the "contract" of course are really more like enslavement since the homeowner is forced to accept whatever terms the developer-aligned propane company demands. This is so "out of the ordinary" that consumers are simply unfamiliar with this "deal" or what the implications are.
If there are alternatives, these places will suffer marketability issues as the word gets out.
Homeowners didn't realize that the "master plan" of the master-planned subdivisions was that they were hopping on a residual income stream treadmill for the benefit of the developer, local government, and HOA vendors -
not for the homeowner .
04-15-2011, 06:53 AM
2 posts, read
13,183 times
Reputation: 15
Below is the list of communities that have central propane distribution systems in Texas. The developers in these communities grant the propane companies monopoly rights and there is no regulation on price or service for these monopolies. Propane is now the most expensive way to heat your home. You should choose electric heat pumps if possible instead - much, much more energy efficent and lower cost than propane. Alta Vista Arbolago Austin's Colony Autumn Wood Bel Terra Bella Lago Bella Strada Lakeway Ben Brook Briar Creek Brushy Creek Caslano/River Bend Century Ranch Chaparral Crossing Commander's Point Cordillera Ranch Costa Bella Dogwood Hills Dry Creek Estates Eagle Mountain lake resort Enclave at Brushy Creek - Hutto Falconhead West Flint Rock (Falls) Forest Bluff Foxwood Garden Valley Glenwood Estates - Hutto Greenshores Hamilton Point Heritage Park Hills of Lakeway Hornsby Glen Howard Ranch Jacaradas La Ventana Ladera Ranch Lago Vista Village Center Lake Pointe Lake Wind Lakeside Las Brisas at Ensenada Shores Madrone Canyon Estates Maravilla Martin's Meadows Meadowcreek North Creek Ranch North Lakeway Village North Lakeways Village section 2 North Shore and The Point Oakhill Reserve Ridge at Alta Vista River Front Village/Kerrville Rob Roy Rim Rocky Creek Ranch Rough Hollow Senna Hills Seven Oaks Spanish Oaks Spillman Ranch/Falconhead Sterling Acres Stone Lake Stonewater Sunset Cove The Canyon's at Lake Travis The Hills The Hollows The Preserve at Barton Creek The Preserve at Lakeway Valley View Mobile Home park Villages of New Sweden Villages on Pearce Lane Villa's at Flintrock - Lakeway Villas at LakeCliff Vistas at Lake Travis Vistas at Lakeway West Cypress Hills West Cypress Ranch Wolf Crossing Woods of Greenshores
10-23-2011, 08:41 AM
6 posts, read
17,847 times
Reputation: 12
Don't see Belterra on the list, am I overlooking it?
10-23-2011, 09:27 AM
Location: Avery Ranch, Austin, TX
8,977 posts, read
17,541,345 times
Reputation: 4001
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sadiegirl14
Don't see Belterra on the list, am I overlooking it?
Looks like it's listed as
Bel Terra . Glad we don't have to deal with such matters. Good old 'city'
natural gas for us, including the grill we haven't used in months.
10-23-2011, 10:04 AM
Location: SW Austin & Wimberley
6,333 posts, read
18,049,590 times
Reputation: 5532
Quote:
I would absolutely consider every cost to me when living somewhere.
This is so smart and seems so obvious, yet few buyers do it unless prompted to do so by friends or their agent. TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) can swing wildly for essentially the same age/style home in Austin, over just a few mile difference in distance.
If, as a buyer, you buy a home far out with high mileage commuting costs (especially if a toll is involved and when gas goes over $4/gal again), community propane (which is known to generate extremely high bills), HOA fees, and located in one of the higher property tax areas such as the 2.9% areas in Dripping (versus 1.82% in some Travis County areas), and you're buying that home because you think you're getting a "better price per square foot" or "more home for the money", you're making a mistake by failing to properly calculate the TCO of that home. I tell my buyers run, don't walk, away from those type of neighborhoods.
That said, we're having a buyer build one now in Lakeway because, after careful consideration and knowing all the facts, a decision was made that the pluses of the home and its location far outweighed the minuses. In other words, in informed, calculated decision instead of the surprise of not knowing anything about the risks of community propane.
There are end-user behavior modifications that can reduce the propane consumption, such as not using the gas log fireplace, helping the home stay warm in winter with effective use of air circulation with reverse ceiling fans, accepting a cooler setting as a lifestyle choice on the thermostat, using a programmable thermostat, more blankets on the bed, etc. The propane bill can be held at bay, but it requires diligent proactive awareness and action during the cold months.
Steve
06-03-2014, 06:36 AM
Location: Austin, TX
11 posts, read
18,598 times
Reputation: 19
Propane
Quote:
Originally Posted by
eichlerfan
This is why we were afraid to buy a home in Belterra where it seems all the houses use propane.
I have gas service with Texas Community Propane. It is INSANITY expensive when it comes to winter time. David weekly home is a good home builder and a lot of their focus is on energy efficiency. The do have great insulation on their home. However, propane is not regulated and it is very expensive.
I have a 1650SQ house. Must set up the temperature at 68 degree to manage the propane bill under $200.00 per month during winter time.
06-03-2014, 12:25 PM
207 posts, read
858,459 times
Reputation: 82
Even though the majority of this thread is 3 years old, I couldn't be happier that when I bought a home 7 years ago it was in an all electric neighborhood. I actually had a contract on a home in a propane community and so glad that fell apart.
06-03-2014, 12:40 PM
4,710 posts, read
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Reputation: 5613
I also have a 2300 sq ft home, and we have natural gas for cooking, hot water and heat. My natural gas bill last month was $20, and should stay down there all summer. In the winter, my husband needs the heat to be pretty high (around 76) and our heating costs peak at about $130 in the coldest months. With PEC, had an electric bill of $74. However, I am hoping that the next electric bill should go down just a bit next month, as I had an insulation make-over in my attic last month. Perhaps that will also help the heating (gas) bill to go down a bit next winter.
06-03-2014, 04:43 PM
Location: New York
2,251 posts, read
4,913,781 times
Reputation: 1617
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tourbound129
Even though the majority of this thread is 3 years old, I couldn't be happier that when I bought a home 7 years ago it was in an all electric neighborhood . I actually had a contract on a home in a propane community and so glad that fell apart.
Just imagine if you had solar panels??? Years ago lived in Pfluggerville. One of the many things miss about Texas is the weather - lots of sunshine. A good investment to consider switching over to solar energy.
Now living in Long Island NY, definitely experience the four seasons. Summer months more sun, and winter months less sun. 2yrs ago installed solar panels, now at savings breakeven point what we paid for the installation. Electric bill last month = $10.92 (service charge??). Brighter and longer summertime days, meter running backwards.
See post -
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People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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