We just got back from Austin and enjoyed it (Dallas: neighborhood, gated)

[TheHarvester]

Originally Posted by jread

I find it very hard to believe that anyone in Austin gives a flying crap that you're a biracial couple. I think you are just not used to how forward Texans are... we will look right at other people (especially if they're attractive) and think nothing of it.

Exactly. It's a different culture. People here will get up in your face and be friendly and it's not always what you want. I've had friends and family visit from California and they've often been put-off by the "HI Y'ALL" attitude of Texans. They don't like being called "honey" by the waitress. I love it. It's a different culture and people look at each other more here. Denmark is extremely different. The Nordic countries in general have a much more staid, reserved cultural attitude and it's considered impolite to stare at others.

And, jread, I love the way you accidentally tied the Grackle topic back into this thread by using the phrase "flying crap".

[b. frank]

Originally Posted by jread

I find it very hard to believe that anyone in Austin gives a flying crap that you're a biracial couple.

I find it rather easy to believe. Though I am in a same-race marriage now, I was in a bi-racial relationship (boyfriend (me) white, gilfriend black) for years, and we travelled a lot. I got to see the reactions from people all over. Some reactions are briefly stated below:

Richmond, VA (where we lived): constant stares. Open hostility to both of us from black men - they would ask her in front of me why she was in this relationship, as if she was openly betraying her race.

Colorado (where we lived)/all around the midwest: No staring. No open opinions. Hard time getting people to rent their mountain cottages to us despite our money, good credit, and wide availability of what we wanted. Friends there would always say "that's how the midwest is: you never really know what people truly think of you". Not sure that I agree, but there was a distinct feeling that people were suspicious of us.

Western Massachusetts (Amherst, my home away from home): No stares, no "bad" treatment of any kind. We could both FEEL the lack of interest in our races. It was great. Same for the rest of New England and up the east coast of Canada.

Amish country, PA: Uncontrollable stares. Utter confusion.

I have not been in a bi-racial relationship in Austin, but I expect that people here (being from the South, kind of) do indeed "give a crap" if for no other reason than that they are not used to it. Also, anywhere that blacks have a significant presence (which they do in Austin, at least compared to Colorado or Massachusetts) there are more obvious racial issues/problems and I am sure that black men stared at you, Bluebunny, for the same reasons that they stared at us in Virginia.

[jread]

Originally Posted by b. frank

I have not been in a bi-racial relationship in Austin, but I expect that people here (being from the South, kind of) do indeed "give a crap" if for no other reason than that they are not used to it. Also, anywhere that blacks have a significant presence (which they do in Austin, at least compared to Colorado or Massachusetts) there are more obvious racial issues/problems and I am sure that black men stared at you, Bluebunny, for the same reasons that they stared at us in Virginia.

"Yeeeeaaahhhh, I'm going to have to go ahead and sort of, disagree with you on that one."

There are a lot of bi-racial couples in Austin... I see them all the time. Moderator cut: personal

BTW, this is not a "Southern" city in any way. I get tired of people grouping Texas with the South (geographically or culturally).

[readymade]

That's interesting about Massachusetts. Most people think of Mass as being pretty liberal, but there's still quite a bit of racism going on there (as, I guess, everywhere). I once rented out my downstairs apartment to a bi-racial couple. When I was showing it to them, I didn't think much of it until they asked if it would be a problem. I was pretty surprised, actually. So, I assume that they had trouble elsewhere. I've also had various friends (black, chinese, etc...) tell me about racist stuff that had happened to them (being pulled over for no reason, etc...). Certain parts of western Mass are more liberal than even the rest of the state. Others are very much the opposite.

In any case, I laughed when I read about Californians being taken aback by the rampant friendliness of Austin! I can't even IMAGINE a Bostonian's reaction! I was quite shocked by how friendly people In SoCal were when I moved here. People talking to me in lines, sometimes saying "hi" as they walked by, and everyone hugs!

I was not used to this. In Boston, if someone tries to talk to you... they're either trying to pick you up or they're creepy. Usually both.

[b. frank]

Originally Posted by jread

"Yeeeeaaahhhh, I'm going to have to go ahead and sort of, disagree with you on that one."

First of all, I like the "Office Space" reference.
However, while you don't give a crap about peoples' race, I believe that there are many in Austin who are not so progressive. I point to just about every thread on this board as evidence that there all kinds of people living and moving here, and that Austin is not one big, happy, liberal family. The only reason I brought up anything was to respond to Bluebunny's own experiences here in Austin (being stared at, particularly aggressively by black people).
Of course, I love Austin, and I'm sure that most people here are OK with the bi-racial thing, but I'm willing to bet big money that there are MANY who are not. I'm not going to push the "Southern" thing, and I don't wish to argue about any of this.
Bluebunny asked for input and I had some. That's all.

[b. frank]

Originally Posted by readymade

That's interesting about Massachusetts. Most people think of Mass as being pretty liberal, but there's still quite a bit of racism going on there (as, I guess, everywhere).

I hope that I wasn't unclear about Mass.
That is the one place that I, for sure, felt NO racism directed at us.
I know there are a lot of little redneck enclaves in western Mass. but Amherst, Northampton, and surrounding college areas are the most open-minded, liberal areas that I have been in. But maybe that's my biased view cuz I spent 18 years in Virginia before I went there. But still, I have never felt the kind of natural open-mindedness that I feel in Amherst - including all up and down the West Coast, Boulder, Madison, and yes, Austin (all the standard "liberal" places).
I probably have built up the place in my mind and, honestly, I haven't been there in years, but it is my liberal mecca.

[readymade]

I love Northampton! I think it must be one of the best places on earth. How does it compare to Austin?

[twange]

Originally Posted by readymade

I can't even IMAGINE a Bostonian's reaction! I was quite shocked by how friendly people In SoCal were when I moved here. People talking to me in lines, sometimes saying "hi" as they walked by, and everyone hugs!

I was not used to this. In Boston, if someone tries to talk to you... they're either trying to pick you up or they're creepy. Usually both.

That's funny! My sister lived in Boston (Salem) for a few years and while she liked the area, she was really miffed by the surly nature of Boston folk. She described them as downright "miserable and unhappy"

[MovingForward]

I'm from Texas (Austin), but have lived in Boston for the past 25 years. Boston people are not "surly" or "miserable and unhappy." They're simply private and reserved. Every time I go back to Texas to visit family I have to brace myself for that in-your-face "friendliness." Two different parts of the country, two different histories, two different senses of private space. One is not necessarily better than the other. And parts of Texas *are* southern: you can't live just a few miles from the LA border and not be southern. West Texas, however, not so much.

[TheHarvester]

jread: Major points for the Office Space reference! And much agreement that Austin is NOT a "Southern" city. Even Houston is only marginally Southern in the classic sense of the word. Try Selma, AL, for a real Southern vibe.

b. frank: Living up to your name, you posted some daring comments that align with my own perceptions of all the locations you listed. I've lived in the Amherst/Northampton area and would rate it as the most progressive place in the nation, with the possible exception of Berkeley/Oakland and parts of Vermont.

Moving Forward: Also living up to your name, you moved the topic forward by framing the issue not as differences in happiness or racial harmony, but rather a difference in culture, definitions of personal space, history and mannerisms. Just because people stare at you in Texas but not in Boston doesn't mean ANYTHING until you learn about the nature of those places and how humans generally interact in each location. Texas has problems with personal boundaries. I've had a number of bizarre experiences here that reinforce my feeling that this is an extremely open culture where you cannot expect people to leave you alone. If you want to be alone, walk down a crowded street in Manhattan. You can be naked and singing at the top of your lungs and nobody will even look at you. In Austin they'll stop, stare, listen, and possibly give you money for the performance. And then you'll get arrested, but that's a different topic.