Historical real estate data by zip-code / neighborhood (?) (Austin, Howe: sales, brokers)

[austin-steve]

Originally Posted by gpurcell

The privacy argument is nonsense as long as real estate valuation is the basis for financing public schools and local government...

So, you think a flaw in the school funding system is reason for everyone to have to disclose the sales price when selling their home?

In addition, closed access to sales information helps perpetuate practices such as set commission standards and restricts the ability of buyers and sellers to fully negotiate the conditions of sale of a piece of real estate, again, particularly average homeowners in average houses. These are not statements of opinion--they are statements of verifiable fact.

That's your opinion, not a fact.

There is a definite role for real estate agents in assisting transactions, and they deserve to be compensated for that work. They do NOT deserve, on the other hand, to have sole access to the sale data of the entire real estate market and prevent all other citizens from using that information to do things like, for instance, determine recent sale prices to fight a high property tax assessment. I shouldn't have to beg for access to that data before I go to the assessor's office--or even, as the case of one of the real estate agents who post on this forum, not even receive the courtesy of a reply PM when I requested help in obtaining that information.

Let's review whose data it is:

At first, there is no sales data on a particular home. It doesn't exist unless/until a seller decides to sell.

Then one day, a seller decides to sell. Still no data. He can either try it himself For Sale by Owner, in which case there will be no MLS data at all, or he can hire a Realtor who pays dues to belong to a local MLS.

The purpose of the local MLS, and the reason MLSs came into existence, is for Brokers to offer to share commissions with other Brokers in exchange for bringing offers. This is not a public domain, it's a business platform between members of the Realtor Association and its Multiple Listing Service.

It is the owner of the property who decides to sell and decides to hire a Broker. It is the Broker who spends the time and money acquiring the listing, taking the photos, entering the data for other agents to access or to be displayed on public facing sites such as AustinHomeSearch.com where home seekers can view listings.

After the home sells, it's marked sold in the MLS where the sold data will be available to members of that MLS.

At what point in this process did the sales data become yours? Upon what basis do you have a right to demand to see the transaction information between two private citizens, as recorded in the private multiple listing service owned by the Realtor association who pays to operate it?

Steve

[gpurcell]

Your arguments are only convincing to other real estate agents, Steve. The only reason that data only exists on MLS is because your cartel has prevented taxing authorities in this state from demanding the data at point of sale (like they do, for example, upon purchase of a car). Since you all are the reason the data is not public, it is disingenuous in the extreme to turn around and then claim that you have a private property right of some sort for this data.

In any event in Austin at least, your information control is now broken for anyone who signs up with Redfin. Hopefully TCAD is using this for all sale prices and hopefully at some point in time in the near future we'll see full disclosure of all real estate sales.

And one more thing: how is it possible to argue with a straight face that having sales data on a database that can be accessed by every single real estate agent in town is somehow protecting MY privacy? If privacy were truly an issue you wouldn't be sharing sales data at all.

[austin-steve]

You didn't answer my question. When and where in the process did your "right" to know your neighbor's sale price come to exist?

The sold price of cars is reported so the governemt can tax the sale. That's the only reason they want home sales prices disclosed.

If you get your way, enjoy the junk fee taxes that will get added to the cost of selling and buying.

[TexasHorseLady]

gpurcell, are you licensed? Have you undergone a background check and been fingerprinted? Do you have anything at all to loose by disclosing private information such as sales price of a home? What, other than that you want it for your own convenience, makes it okay for you to have access to private information about what someone chose to pay for a home?

Doctors have private information on their patients and, with permission (we've all signed it) such as that contained in a listing agreement to put the listing on the MLS (the seller can choose not to do that, it's also part of our listing agreement), can share that information with other professionals in their field. Professionals who have spent the time and energy to get the training and become licensed and have gone through the designated background checks, etc. You might as well decide that you have the right to any medical records you might be interested in seeing, too, with as much right and with exactly the same attitude.

"I wanna" seems to be the cry of the day of those who think they have the right to know anything and everything. It's not enough. No matter how hard they might try to pretend it is.

[gpurcell]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Doctors have private information on their patients and, with permission (we've all signed it) such as that contained in a listing agreement to put the listing on the MLS (the seller can choose not to do that, it's also part of our listing agreement), can share that information with other professionals in their field. Professionals who have spent the time and energy to get the training and become licensed and have gone through the designated background checks, etc. You might as well decide that you have the right to any medical records you might be interested in seeing, too, with as much right and with exactly the same attitude.

You aren't seriously comparing the legal restrictions on medical records releases to real estate listings, are you??? Or the putative value of "privacy" in a real estate transaction to the value of preserving private control of one's medical history???

[gpurcell]

Originally Posted by austin-steve

You didn't answer my question. When and where in the process did your "right" to know your neighbor's sale price come to exist?

The sold price of cars is reported so the governemt can tax the sale. That's the only reason they want home sales prices disclosed.

If you get your way, enjoy the junk fee taxes that will get added to the cost of selling and buying.

I have the right to know all sales prices because they establish market valuation and that valuation determines property taxes. QED. The only "flaw" in the current system, by the way, is that a cartel has successfully prevented local government from understanding the market through its hiding of essential sale data.

[love roses]

As just a regular homeowner, I'd like to know why gpurcell thinks he needs to know all about the sale of my house. I can't imagine why any other homeowner on my street would want any average joe to have that much info about anyone. He hasn't convinced me. Isn't it already easy enough to figure out how much homes go for in a given area anyway?

[austin-steve]

Originally Posted by gpurcell

I have the right to know all sales prices because they establish market valuation and that valuation determines property taxes. QED. The only "flaw" in the current system, by the way, is that a cartel has successfully prevented local government from understanding the market through its hiding of essential sale data.

A Cartel is "an association of manufacturers or suppliers that maintains prices at a high level and restricts competition."

Let's examine that.

Competition in the real estate market is not restricted.
In fact, entry into the profession is about as low-cost as you can get compared to other professional occupations. That's part of the problem, actually. The easy entry creates a huge population of lousy agents who get in and then wash out the first year, embarrassing and hurting the reputations of the rest of us along the way. As long as you can pass the test, the finger printing and criminal background checks, and you're not delinquent on student loans or child support, and you have a reliable vehicle, you can become a Realtor in less than 6 weeks in Texas.

You don't even need a college degree and you most certainly don't have to be smart. Name for me an easier professional industry to enter that is held to the same level of Ethics and Standards of Practice and government oversight. There is none. Competition is NOT restricted.

And there have been plenty of entries into the industry who vowed to "cut the fat" from the commission and give it to the consumer. All eventually discover, including your beloved Redfin, that the numbers don't work in real life the way it looked on paper. Redfin, rather than act as a disrupter to the real estate industry, has simply been assimilated as a result of the realities of business economics and consumer behavior. Redfin today looks more like a traditional Broker than the Redfin that originally launched, except they won't show buyers unlimited houses for free and they have a much better website than our horrible industry MLS software.

With regard to list pricing:
Today, right now, with less than 3 to 5 phone calls, you can call and find a Realtor willing to list your home at a 1% commission or less for the list side. That's below the cost of doing business, but you can still find an agent willing to do it. You could probably even find a Realtor to list it in the MLS for a flat $500 if you wanted nothing else but the listing to be included in the MLS. I don't see how anyone can say the prices are too high when these options are available.

Of course, at these prices you'd have a less robust set of activities and efforts included, but for some sellers, that's ok. For most sellers though, the vast majority in fact, they understand and appreciate the value of a full service professional and that's why we continue to survive despite predictions of our demise.

Buyer Pricing:
On the buy side, go with Redfin or One Percent Realty, or if your selling AND buying, find an agent willing to do a "move-up" deal. Some agents will even do one transaction completely free (for their side of the commission) if they are making full commission on the other transaction.

So, there is ample pricing flexibility available to consumers. They simply don't choose the Discount Brokers over the full service Brokers to a degree that matters. What isn't available it a full service model that can be profitable charging Discount Broker prices. Realtors cannot make a living operating at a loss.

Your Right to Know Sold Prices
Again, you're desire or "want" to know something about two other people's private business transaction doesn't create a "right". It scares me that there are people who actually think it does. It's none of your business. If you think your property appraised value is too high, you can protest it and get it lowered. I don't know a Realtor not willing to do a Free CMA for any home owner who asks. We do 100s of them every year. The specific data, relative to your specific home is easy to obtain from a Realtor.

Steve

[gpurcell]

Originally Posted by love roses

As just a regular homeowner, I'd like to know why gpurcell thinks he needs to know all about the sale of my house. I can't imagine why any other homeowner on my street would want any average joe to have that much info about anyone. He hasn't convinced me. Isn't it already easy enough to figure out how much homes go for in a given area anyway?

No, it isn't. You have to go through gatekeepers, and those manning the gates want to keep it that way for their own ends.

[gpurcell]

Originally Posted by austin-steve

A Cartel is "an association of manufacturers or suppliers that maintains prices at a high level and restricts competition."

Two Words:
"Procuring Cause."