Austin - too much attention for it's own good? (Howe: for sale, real estate market)

[wedmiston]

We want to give Austin a fair shake...it's been on our radar for some time as a top-tier place we'd like to move...but....I'd like to ask a few questions before we pull the trigger and possibly move there. We read all the hype...seen all the "best places to" lists, compared state tax rates and home prices, reviewed state employment stats, etc. But there linger some questions I'd like to pose to the more seasoned posters out here that rely on your experience and knowledge living there.

Thoughts about Austin:

1. All the attention has already started a tsunami of boomers opting to retire there - so much so it has been covered on the national news as the new "in" retirement location. Not to mention all the "best places to live" lists. Is Austin likely to experience such an influx so as to suffer the same problems as most cities that are highlighted in this manner? Traffic is already mentioned frequently as a big problem - a huge influx of new people will only (logically) make it much worse. There is a lot of bad stuff that comes with a "herd" mentality. There are a lot of people who rue the days when Seattle got so much attention a few decades ago - they say it ruined the place in the years to come.

2. If you really look at it, much of the positive commentary about Austin seems to be targeted and directed toward younger people. The whole "live music capitol" thing is one example -look a bit closer and it seems it's mostly talking about the prevalence of college bars - not the stuff that appeals to 45+ people (our ages). So basically, if you're not single and/or under 30, is much of the hype irrelevant?

3. The benefits of a college town are apparent, but that aside, does it also mean there is a glut of UT grads who clog the job market and prevent those same 45+ people from getting decent jobs? The employment numbers are impressive, but not if they are mostly lower-paying (< $60K entry level jobs).

4. No state income tax...no state income tax....no state income tax...got it. However, property and sales taxes are high, and energy costs are high too, noteworthy for an area where you need AC running many months. For those who have lived elsewhere, is the absence of state income tax all that meaningful when you factor in these other costs?

Now, before all the crazies go off on some of my comments, let me add...we really want to consider Austin - there is a lot there that appeals to us, but I also want to get some help getting past the hype and getting a true, accurate picture from seasoned Austinites (Austonians? Austites?) as to what is fact, fiction and just plain hooey.

[centralaustinite]

Austinites!

I might have more to say about this later but I am rushed for time. Honestly, I think everyone considering Austin should get a subscription to Texas Monthly and the Texas Observer. Read both for a year and you will learn so much about Austin, and other cities and Texas in general, our history (the 1830s are important but so are the 1950s!), our problems, our potential, etc.

Read and learn!

[wedmiston]

Central - Appreciate the good suggestion, but time won't allow a year. Been researching for some time and we're in the home stretch....

[austinnerd]

Good questions:

1. Whether or not the influx and growth of Austin is making things better or worse really is in the eye of the beholder. Austin is growing, along with growth comes positives and negatives. Lots of old timers really do not like where Austin is going. Many do and are rolling with the changes. Coming from Cali, the traffic is worse than when I first moved here, but still nothing like out in Cali. The downtown area IMHO is 1000x better than when I first moved out here. So in general one could count me on the "Austin is generally better thanks to it's growth".

2. Actually I think Austin has become a bit more friendly to older folks. When I first moved here, the "entertainment" section of downtown was either 6th st (between Congress/I35), which was for all the college "kids" and a few places on 5th that some of the, slightly, older folks went. Now there are many many more options west of Congress and more yet to come.

3. Alas that is true, nice place plus lots of grads equals lots of competition. Then throw in all the folks moving here and things get even dicier. There are still good paying jobs to be had, but like anywhere, they are in specific fields and there are lots of people going after them (i.e. it's a employers market still).

4. Sure it does make a difference. I'd rather choose to live in a more modest house and have a smart thermostat than have my tax burden raised as I have more success at my occupation. If you're further up the pay scale, the positive benefits of no state income tax really start to factor in. Of course, if you insist on living in a large home that sucks up massive amounts of electricity, then things will even out. Remember that the high property taxes is often cited as one of the reasons why the real estate market here tends not to fall into all out speculation mode, so while it can be a bit painful up front, it can have long term benefits.

Good luck in your decision. You don't mention where you're coming from, what things you like to do, etc, so it's hard to say what the likelihood is that you'll like it here in Austin. It has it's good things and it's bad things, just like any other city. The question is how do those positive things match up with your likes and the negative things match up with your dislikes.

[Tycho Brahe]

Originally Posted by wedmiston

4. No state income tax...no state income tax....no state income tax...got it. However, property and sales taxes are high, and energy costs are high too, noteworthy for an area where you need AC running many months. For those who have lived elsewhere, is the absence of state income tax all that meaningful when you factor in these other costs?

YES. AFAIK, no state has no property tax, so the high property tax can be looked at as an additional increment to an existing tax. No income tax means NO INCOME TAX. You go from something to nothing. Same goes for sales tax. Besides, sales tax in most states is as high as Texas.

Property and sales tax are tax on the consumption side. Spend less, pay less. Easy to control. With income tax: make more, pay more. Only way to pay less income tax is to make less.

[Bo]

I'll let the local folks address your #2 and #3. Here's my 2-cents on the other list items:

It sounds like you're afraid of sprawl. I strongly suspect you won't like Austin. Counties adjacent to Austin's Travis County are some of the fastest-growing parts of Texas. There's plenty of traffic and plenty of other headaches associated with growth. If you're averse to sprawl, you may be unhappy in the suburbs of Austin.

You may not automatically experience an overall tax savings. We moved from Wisconsin, a fairly high property-tax state with state income taxes, to a Texas house that was about 30% cheaper than the house in Wisconsin. The property taxes in Texas were higher on our cheaper house than the taxes were in Wisconsin on the more valuable house, which offset the difference in not paying state income tax.

[centralaustinite]

Originally Posted by wedmiston

Central - Appreciate the good suggestion, but time won't allow a year. Been researching for some time and we're in the home stretch....

Read two issues of each! Or just one of each! Together they concisely capture so much about Austin and Texas.

Austin is a like a kaleidoscope, look at it one way -- not pretty at all, turn your head 15 degrees and suddenly . . . beauty!

Much of of Austin is hot, flat, sprawl with endless chain stores, but just tilt your head a bit and suddenly local businesses, swimming holes, and unique people come into focus.


Took me two years to learn to love Austin, five for my husband. Now after 20 plus years . . . we feel at home almost anywhere in the state. But it was a slow process.

I think perhaps you were destined for somewhere else.

[Austin97]

Originally Posted by wedmiston

We want to give Austin a fair shake...it's been on our radar for some time as a top-tier place we'd like to move...but....I'd like to ask a few questions before we pull the trigger and possibly move there. We read all the hype...seen all the "best places to" lists, compared state tax rates and home prices, reviewed state employment stats, etc. But there linger some questions I'd like to pose to the more seasoned posters out here that rely on your experience and knowledge living there.

Thoughts about Austin:

1. All the attention has already started a tsunami of boomers opting to retire there - so much so it has been covered on the national news as the new "in" retirement location. Not to mention all the "best places to live" lists. Is Austin likely to experience such an influx so as to suffer the same problems as most cities that are highlighted in this manner? Traffic is already mentioned frequently as a big problem - a huge influx of new people will only (logically) make it much worse. There is a lot of bad stuff that comes with a "herd" mentality. There are a lot of people who rue the days when Seattle got so much attention a few decades ago - they say it ruined the place in the years to come.

2. If you really look at it, much of the positive commentary about Austin seems to be targeted and directed toward younger people. The whole "live music capitol" thing is one example -look a bit closer and it seems it's mostly talking about the prevalence of college bars - not the stuff that appeals to 45+ people (our ages). So basically, if you're not single and/or under 30, is much of the hype irrelevant?

3. The benefits of a college town are apparent, but that aside, does it also mean there is a glut of UT grads who clog the job market and prevent those same 45+ people from getting decent jobs? The employment numbers are impressive, but not if they are mostly lower-paying (< $60K entry level jobs).

4. No state income tax...no state income tax....no state income tax...got it. However, property and sales taxes are high, and energy costs are high too, noteworthy for an area where you need AC running many months. For those who have lived elsewhere, is the absence of state income tax all that meaningful when you factor in these other costs?

Now, before all the crazies go off on some of my comments, let me add...we really want to consider Austin - there is a lot there that appeals to us, but I also want to get some help getting past the hype and getting a true, accurate picture from seasoned Austinites (Austonians? Austites?) as to what is fact, fiction and just plain hooey.

Austin is a great second tier city. One of the things that makes it great is the mix of amenities for a small city.

Whether the tax situation is good for you depends on how you live. If you make a lot of money but you live a modest material life, texas is awesome. However if you dont make that much money and you live beyond your means, then texas' tax situation isnt really that beneficial.

The students do drive down the price of labor in all areas. But a good person can stand out. The community is small enough that you will see the same people while just out and about.

You probably need to be more specific about your needs.

For example, weather, restaurants, outdoor activities, sports teams, schools, walkable lifestyle etc are all possibly important things.

[wedmiston]

Now, now, Central, don't go jumping to conclusions...there mere fact that I'm asking these types of questions should suggest that I'm very serious in my consideration and not prone to "following the herd."

So far so good everyone - keep the responses coming!

[wedmiston]

+1 for those pointing out the tax impact regarding income vs. consumption - an important distinction! As for the other factors mentioned (weather, restaurants, outdoor activities, sports teams, schools, walkable lifestyle), I think we're pretty confident Austin can deliver....weather notwithstanding.