Guy selling lab puppies in Bee Cave out of truck... (Rule: house, buy)

[BentBow]

Originally Posted by h886

No, of course not. However, we have a problem with pet overpopulation here and it's not going away. And while certainly you'll occasionally find a naive but well-meaning person whose dog gets out and they wind up with an "oops" litter, when I see signs for purebred this or that for $250 a pup rather than a mutt litter, I have my doubts as to how that female "accidentally" found a purebred male of the exact same breed during that brief period she was on the loose. Many of those litters happen on purpose, I'm afraid.

The better solution would be for pet owners to get their pets fixed, rather than creating more puppies who grow into dogs that have to be killed in shelters every year because there's not enough space to keep them alive with more brought in every day and not enough people willing to adopt. No one wants to think about that part when they contribute to the problem by buying pets in pet shops or from backyard breeders, but as long as there's a demand, some will rush in to supply the goods. Whether or not laws are in place in certain communities, one way to cut down on the practice is to only adopt pets from a shelter or rescue group rather than rewarding some backyard breeder with a nice fat check for failing to do the responsible thing and get his dog fixed or worse, breeding them purposefully.

Who are you to even suggest I have my dogs fixed, because you feel it is a better way than keeping them from breeding in the first place. My right and liberty is going to be taken away, because you have some artificial intellectual idea, that dog over population is because dogs are allowed to breed? Where is the common sense in that?

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by kiacook

It is my opinion to share on this board. I think there are far too many unwanted animals and it should be the law that anyone who is not a licensed breeder who owns a dog should be required to get that dog spayed or neutered. There is really NO reason not to - no benefit to the dog or the owners or society to have a bunch of unfixed dogs running around having puppies that end up being put to sleep in a shelter.

You are entitled to your opinion, you are not entitled to impose it on others.

[kiacook]

You are entitled to your opinion, you are not entitled to impose it on others.

Bull****. That's what laws are - enough people agree a certain "opinion" is the right thing to do. Granted this one isn't a law yet, but it definitely should be and if enough people it agree, eventually it will be. There is no constitutional right to have an unneutered pet.

[Don in Austin]

Originally Posted by BentBow

Who are you to even suggest I have my dogs fixed, because you feel it is a better way than keeping them from breeding in the first place. My right and liberty is going to be taken away, because you have some artificial intellectual idea, that dog over population is because dogs are allowed to breed? Where is the common sense in that?

Simple numbers. Simple math. Dogs breed, the dog population increases exponentially. The only thing that imposes an equilibrium is killing them.
That's why so many dogs end up killed at shelters.

Breeders don't like to confront this, but its a simple mathematical reality.
Nothing "artificial" about it.

Don

[CptnRn]

You are entitled to your opinion, you are not entitled to impose it on others.

Originally Posted by kiacook

Bull****. That's what laws are - enough people agree a certain "opinion" is the right thing to do. Granted this one isn't a law yet, but it definitely should be and if enough people it agree, eventually it will be. There is no constitutional right to have an unneutered pet.

What part is bull****?

"You are entitled to your opinion," That is true.

"you are not entitled to impose it on others." That is true as well.

So it appears that everything I wrote is pure gold plated truth.

As YOU said "this one isn't a law yet", TRUE also. So it appears that 'YOUR opinion' remains nothing more then YOUR opinion. The only part of the above exchange that is bull**** is YOUR desire to impose YOUR opinion on others. I disagree with 'YOUR opinion' and will do everything I can to fight laws such as this.

YOU have no constitutional right to neuter other people's pets or to dictate any other aspect of how they live their lives.

Another thing that I think is bull**** is the idea that only licensed breeders should be allowed to have pets that reproduce. I'm sure the licensed breeders are lobbying hard to make that a reality. Talk about conflict of interest. They charge outrageous prices for their animals. I know people who have become licensed breeders purely for the income they derive from this. It is insanely profitable.

If I grew up with an animal that was beloved my sisters and I, why shouldn't my family be able to breed that animal so we can have one of its offspring in later years? Why shouldn't my children or friends be allowed to have one of its offspring? Why should we be forced to go buy an unknown animal from a licensed breeder, rather then from a friend or relative?

What gives you the right to decide how we live our lives at this minute level of detail?

[h886]

Originally Posted by BentBow

My right and liberty is going to be taken away, because you have some artificial intellectual idea, that dog over population is because dogs are allowed to breed? Where is the common sense in that?

Dog overpopulation being related to dogs being allowed to breed? Yes, according to my biology teacher, that is in fact how it works. She didn't consider that concept particularly "intellectual" either, but to each their own standards.

[FueledByBlueBell]

Originally Posted by CptnRn

What part is bull****?

"You are entitled to your opinion," That is true.

"you are not entitled to impose it on others." That is true as well.

So it appears that everything I wrote is pure gold plated truth.

As YOU said "this one isn't a law yet", TRUE also. So it appears that 'YOUR opinion' remains nothing more then YOUR opinion. The only part of the above exchange that is bull**** is YOUR desire to impose YOUR opinion on others. I disagree with 'YOUR opinion' and will do everything I can to fight laws such as this.

YOU have no constitutional right to neuter other people's pets or to dictate any other aspect of how they live their lives.

Another thing that I think is bull**** is the idea that only licensed breeders should be allowed to have pets that reproduce. I'm sure the licensed breeders are lobbying hard to make that a reality. Talk about conflict of interest. They charge outrageous prices for their animals. I know people who have become licensed breeders purely for the income they derive from this. It is insanely profitable.

If I grew up with an animal that was beloved my sisters and I, why shouldn't my family be able to breed that animal so we can have one of its offspring in later years? Why shouldn't my children or friends be allowed to have one of its offspring? Why should we be forced to go buy an unknown animal from a licensed breeder, rather then from a friend or relative?

What gives you the right to decide how we live our lives at this minute level of detail?

You know, I have my moments where I'd love to clone my dog because I love her so much and can't imagine not having her around but I know that this is selfish and there are many other dogs out there that need a good home. Sometimes we need to step back from our wants and do what is right.

As to liberties- how do you feel about environment controls that prevent our waterways from high toxicity like the Ganges or the Gowanus Canal? Should I be allowed to trash my house and neglect my yard while it impacts my neighbor's quality of life and property value? Should I be allowed to drive an ill maintained car that may cause pollution or traffic accidents that could injure others? I find this discussion so interesting.

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by FueledByBlueBell

You know, I have my moments where I'd love to clone my dog because I love her so much and can't imagine not having her around but I know that this is selfish and there are many other dogs out there that need a good home. Sometimes we need to step back from our wants and do what is right.

It does not follow that wanting to keep your dog or its off spring around is selfish. That is a non-sequitur. You are entitled to make those decisions and decide what is right for you, but you are not entitled to make them for someone else. It is really very selfish of you to think that everyone else must agree with your definition of what is right or wrong and what is selfish.

Originally Posted by FueledByBlueBell

As to liberties- how do you feel about environment controls that prevent our waterways from high toxicity like the Ganges or the Gowanus Canal? Should I be allowed to trash my house and neglect my yard while it impacts my neighbor's quality of life and property value? Should I be allowed to drive an ill maintained car that may cause pollution or traffic accidents that could injure others? I find this discussion so interesting.

This is a red herring argument, off topic, misleading and irrelevant to the discussion at hand. We are not talking about air pollution or water pollution or causing traffic accidents or the government's authority to regulate those things.

[BentBow]

Originally Posted by h886

Dog overpopulation being related to dogs being allowed to breed? Yes, according to my biology teacher, that is in fact how it works. She didn't consider that concept particularly "intellectual" either, but to each their own standards.

No, it is the ignorance of those that do not care about their pets, nor have a game plan, for a female in heat.

You want to penalize everyone for just a few bad apples.

That is what the criminal courts are for. If their is neglect and abuse...

[paul6835]

I've seen this guy all over town. The pickup, the puppy labs for sale. There's almost zero chance he's anything but a puppy mill.


Skipping the polical debate, I can only make a humane plea to people:


If you buy a puppy from these roadside breeders, it will likely not end up like the other puppies he breeds who don't sell: exectrocuted, drowned, or at a shelter. That seems like a good idea except he will breed more. The mother will be made pregnant more times than is anywhere near healthy and will likely eventually die from preganancy. He will use that money to breeed more puppies who end up electrocuted, drowned, or in a shelter.

I can't tell you how many times I've had to stop myself from pulling over on the way home from work to yell at people who are looking at his latest litter.