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Old 11-08-2011, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,719 posts, read 26,813,967 times
Reputation: 9236

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Quote:
Originally Posted by migol84 View Post
eepstein likes saying jokes a lot. well, here's an even better joke. CA has 11 cities in the top 25 by ozone, 6 by yr round particle pollution, and 10 by short-term particle. Texas has only 2 in the top 25 by ozone, 1 in yr round particle and 0 by short-term particle. haha
The data doesn't lie!
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
20,790 posts, read 39,696,857 times
Reputation: 24218
Quote:
Originally Posted by migol84 View Post
In a way, you're right. Yes, urban living opens up to a community as opposed to a sprawling city. But in all honesty, when things get more crowded and there's a lot more rush, people just "think" for themselves. They run in front of you and don't say excuse me... they hurry you up all the time. People here in San Francisco honk a lot... and I had some people from Chicago and New York say that they were surprised at how people don't honk a lot in San Francisco!! Go figure! Because when you compare it to cities like Houston, or Dallas there are tons of highways and freeways that people rarely have the time to honk. And I had a friend say that in Chicago everybody honks like its a language all of its own. I haven't experienced it first hand, but I can get an idea. I was literally amazed at how much people honk here in SF. A guy once yelled out the window at pedestrians as he was turning to get out of the way. The walk sign was on and this guy seemed to be sure that he was entitled to make that turn when he was supposed to yield.

I'm always baffled at how people get so antsy here in San Francisco about the most mundane things. Like some lady moving to the side because some guy was rubbing his shoulder, the guy freaks and yells at her, "excuse me! I didn't mean to rub my arm against you!!" I mean, seriously... what the hell!?!?

Maybe it's just San Francisco... i dunno... but coming from what all Chicagoans and east-coasters alike say, "San Francisco is chilled." hahaha There's not a single day... a single simple day (unless I stay home) here in SF that I don't see a fight, or some confrontation of some sort, or some person getting mad at me for not pouring his/her coffee right (i'm a barista) or some guy stomping down the street yelling at everybody. This goes without saying... you'll most likely find this in every urban environment.

For all that's being said, I understand what "pro-sprawlers" mean and I get why "urban" living is not entirely the "utopia" people say. Despite all that, I still prefer urban settings because I'd rather live, work and play in a smaller radius. Its cheaper and fun.
Just for the record, it is not necessary to be "pro-sprawl" in order to think that high rise living isn't the best solution to our mutual problem.

Remember, again, suburbs were a solution to a problem - a solution that fell prey to the law of unintended consequences. High rise urban living is subject to that exact same law - if we're trying to come up with a solution to the problem that was originally a solution, shouldn't we think about it a bit and try to avoid running afoul of that law?

That can be said without being in love with sprawl whatsoever.
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Old 11-08-2011, 12:57 PM
 
1,137 posts, read 2,315,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady View Post
Just for the record, it is not necessary to be "pro-sprawl" in order to think that high rise living isn't the best solution to our mutual problem.

Remember, again, suburbs were a solution to a problem - a solution that fell prey to the law of unintended consequences. High rise urban living is subject to that exact same law - if we're trying to come up with a solution to the problem that was originally a solution, shouldn't we think about it a bit and try to avoid running afoul of that law?

That can be said without being in love with sprawl whatsoever.
Thank you, THL! For the record I am not pro-sprawl but bought what we could afford at the time. We could could have bought something at the same price closer in, but then less space and would have spent more on repair and maintenance. And what about the upkeep and maintenance of an older property discussion? Doesn't that fit into this somewhere?

We are now discussing moving closer to the central area and are potentially considering something in Eanes but just dread moving into a 1970s choppy, dark house and then having to sink $$$$ into renovation. If we didn't have two dogs, and the school districts were better, then we'd look at a high rise.
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Old 11-08-2011, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
1,709 posts, read 2,659,032 times
Reputation: 2191
Sprawl is the corporation's dream. It is composed of miles and miles of unsustainable suburban development complete with big box stores tucked away in ugly strip malls. You pull out of your driveway and into the arms of fast food and Wal Mart. I don't blame people who live in sprawlurbia.. It's not their fault, it's the result of American business. Cheap oil and home ownership built the American dream. It's not going to last much longer with global population growth and depleting resources.
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Not Moving
970 posts, read 1,648,217 times
Reputation: 500
Sprawl.....apparently is where you live and how you describe it! YES, Sprawl is URBAN and DENSELY UPWARDS! AND OUTWARDS and more DIFFUSED.

Gosh, we're not "escaping" to the suburbs and rushing to work DOWNTOWN. "Downtown" is now in the surburbs.
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Old 11-08-2011, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Not Moving
970 posts, read 1,648,217 times
Reputation: 500
In other words.....it is all SPRAWL..
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:16 PM
 
Location: san francisco
2,062 posts, read 3,474,776 times
Reputation: 818
i'm sorry.. i'm completely lost.
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:18 PM
 
99 posts, read 151,901 times
Reputation: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveUrban View Post
Sprawl is the corporation's dream. It is composed of miles and miles of unsustainable suburban development complete with big box stores tucked away in ugly strip malls. You pull out of your driveway and into the arms of fast food and Wal Mart.
Is that the meaning of life, as you see it -- where can you eat and shop? Certainly, suburbs suck at that. I'm not sure how good it is for "corporations", either, considering that the purchasing power of high density urban areas is a lot higher, but I digress...

I like that my kids can run out onto the street and kick the ball with neighbor's kids, I like the nature around me, I like having land to care for instead of a box in the sky, I like having a playroom, a guestroom and an office at home, and I like the peace and quiet... Those things are much more important to me than how pretty the nearby mall is, and what the closest restaurant is.

But, when I was younger, eating and shopping was a bigger part of my life, and I did enjoy living in the city. Not any more...
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Old 11-09-2011, 06:32 AM
 
Location: Holly Neighborhood, Austin, Texas
3,784 posts, read 5,626,848 times
Reputation: 2571
Uniformity and lack of choice are two of my biggest problems with suburban development. I chuckle every time I see one of those threads about an Austin bedroom community eagerly awaiting their first HEB, or grocery store of any kind. Within biking distance (5 miles) of my house I have 3 HEBs, Whole Foods, Fiesta, a couple Royal Blues, and Phoenicia. Oh and two farmers markets open on the weekends........plus that zero packaging grocery store that is planning to open soon. Go a little farther and there are Chinese grocers, Sprouts, and Central Market.

Lack of choice: I have to buy a single family home because most of the bedroom communities only build these.......And they aren't pretty either. Most of them today look like a two car garage with a house tacked onto the back as an afterthought. What happened to all of the great architecture of the 1900 - 1960 era? I'm talking Tudor, Craftsman, Bungalow, and traditional Ranch style homes.

.....And of course b/c everything is low density and because the zoning forces residential and commercial developments to be separate means that I have to driving frickin' everywhere I want to go. Might as well handcuff my wrist to the steering wheel and debit my checking account $700 monthly for all the costs associated with driving so darn much.

And then there are the things that can only happen in the city. Like the night the Alamo Drafthouse DT was sold out of the movie we wanted to see........so we just strolled a few blocks west and north and found Paramount was doing their classic film series in their beautiful theater. Or riding my bike to see the Opera at the Long Center or to watch a UT basketball game and still having the energy to do something afterwards.
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Old 11-09-2011, 06:49 AM
 
Location: Calgary, AB
241 posts, read 648,094 times
Reputation: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by homeinatx View Post
Sprawl: what it means to me - cheap and nasty new construction without craft or design value. Dormitories for families. Bad land use: no mixed development - miles and miles of cookie cutter houses with retail all in strip malls in between, with cheapness the only criterion for building. Entirely autocentric: very pedestrian unfriendly, no bike lanes, no public transportation. No sense of a public good at all. No trees, the natural environment strip-mined to provided maximum profit for developers, no consideration of environmental or historic regional concerns in architecture or planning - one size fits all. Minimal infrastructure, one road in, one road out, minimal side walks, street lights. In short, ugly, stupid and short on civility. Texas has too much of it: the ugliest middle class housing in the developed world: homogenous, unimaginative, grotesque and destined to be slums.
Saved me some typing.

What he said.
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