MOPAC Express Lanes (Atlanta, Howe, Cooper: fit in, good schools, maintenance)

[supernaut112]

I would think, given the projected increase in the cost of gas to $5/gallon or more, that plans to expand any major thoroughfare in Austin would be put on hold. There's no way to ascertain how this will affect traffic congestion. Some people will move closer to their workplace, while others might rely more on public transportation, or carpool. Some people might move to another city that's more compact or has pre-existing PT in place.

Not saying that future expansions of Mopac is entirely unnecessary. Just a bit premature, given that we know the cost of fuel will impact how people travel, as well as how frequently.

[jb9152]

Originally Posted by supernaut112

I would think, given the projected increase in the cost of gas to $5/gallon or more, that plans to expand any major thoroughfare in Austin would be put on hold. There's no way to ascertain how this will affect traffic congestion. Some people will move closer to their workplace, while others might rely more on public transportation, or carpool. Some people might move to another city that's more compact or has pre-existing PT in place.

Not saying that future expansions of Mopac is entirely unnecessary. Just a bit premature, given that we know the cost of fuel will impact how people travel, as well as how frequently.

Perhaps over the medium- or long-term, but you're not going to see a quantum decrease in traffic overnight when gas hits $5 a gallon. We still need to be planning and providing transportation improvements.

[bpvarian]

Just came out today on NPR, very informative
‘Dynamic Tolling’ to Smooth MoPac Traffic | KUT.org

[mimimomx3]

"you can ensure that the rate is high enough that you keep the number of people in the lane from clogging it up. "

How beautifully elitist. Pricing people out of the roads that they paid money to build and maintain.

[jb9152]

Originally Posted by mimimomx3

"you can ensure that the rate is high enough that you keep the number of people in the lane from clogging it up. "

How beautifully elitist. Pricing people out of the roads that they paid money to build and maintain.

That might hold some water if people were not allowed to use the remaining lanes (which are not going away - the "free" lanes will number the same as they do today) without paying a toll, but that's not the case. The managed lane simply offers a guaranteed average speed to drivers who are willing to pay for it. No existing lanes will be taken away, so no one will be forced to pay a toll. It's a decision the driver can make on a day to day basis.

It's pretty simple - if you value your $ more than your time, then you can stay in the existing free lanes and deal with congestion during peak times. If you value your time more than your $, you can use the managed lane. The price changes dynamically with demand to ensure that the total number of vehicles using the lane never gets so high as to reduce the average speed below some reasonable threshold (say, 45 mph).

There is also express bus service being planned for the managed lanes, so there will even be a third option - pay a relatively low transit fare for a fast, reliable ride downtown that you can't get today with normal bus service in mixed traffic.

[verybadgnome]

Originally Posted by mimimomx3

"you can ensure that the rate is high enough that you keep the number of people in the lane from clogging it up. "

How beautifully elitist. Pricing people out of the roads that they paid money to build and maintain.

You could look at it that way or you could take the POV that managed lanes will reduce congestion on the free lanes. That variable toll pricing is the most advanced mechanism available for balancing supply and demand on roadway infrastructure, but it is a new idea that will take some time getting used to. And there is no situation you refer to because gas taxes will not be paying for the managed lanes, as I believe it will be initially funded with a bond that is paid back via toll collections. Simple fact is that lawmakers have refused to raise the gas tax to keep up with inflation and have had to resort to other funding tools. In Texas a "fee" sounds much better than a "tax" even if the function is the same.

[veloman777]

I think this variable toll on the express lanes is a great idea.

Just what in the world makes anyone think they deserve to get around traffic congestion for no premium? It makes no sense at all. As said above, they are not removing free lanes at all.

I for one rarely drive a car, and certainly am not a wealthy person.

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by supernaut112

I would think, given the projected increase in the cost of gas to $5/gallon or more, that plans to expand any major thoroughfare in Austin would be put on hold. There's no way to ascertain how this will affect traffic congestion. Some people will move closer to their workplace, while others might rely more on public transportation, or carpool. Some people might move to another city that's more compact or has pre-existing PT in place.

Not saying that future expansions of Mopac is entirely unnecessary. Just a bit premature, given that we know the cost of fuel will impact how people travel, as well as how frequently.

Premature? Its more like 20 years behind. If we don't start now we will never catch up.

[10scoachrick]

I'm sorry...I used to be good in math...AND I've been driving for over 40 years. Tell me again how charging folks to drive in a particular lane is going to reduce congestion . Maybe I need one of those pretty graphs y'all call up from time to time.


Heck, there's a guy over in the Atlanta forum who thinks significantly limiting parking and raising the parking prices will 'drive' people out of their cars(and their evil ways, I reckon). Why not charge a bundle to drive in the 'special' lane AND charge out the wazoo for parking! THAT should clear the roads right zippy!

[jb9152]

Originally Posted by 10scoachrick

I'm sorry...I used to be good in math...AND I've been driving for over 40 years. Tell me again how charging folks to drive in a particular lane is going to reduce congestion . Maybe I need one of those pretty graphs y'all call up from time to time.

It's actually pretty simple; we've probably over-explained.

One new lane in each direction is going to be created within the existing roadway, without reducing the current number of lanes (they're going to do that by taking some of the medians, and slightly reducing the size of the existing lanes). So, there will be an extra lane created in each direction. Those lanes will be "managed" lanes, i.e. tolled. However, they will be tolled *dynamically*, which means that the price to enter the lane will go up as more vehicles get in the lane (so, price will rise as congestion rises). During off-peak times, when there's little or no congestion in the existing, "free" lanes, the price will probably be next to nothing, because there's no incentive to use the managed toll lane at that point. As congestion goes up, and the managed lane option becomes more attractive to drivers (i.e. those who value their time more than they value a few extra $ in their pockets), the price to enter the lane will go up. It will go up as much as it needs to in order to keep the number of cars in the managed lane at a certain average volume, so that a reasonable average speed (45 to 55 mph, say) can be maintained. It's very free-market - as the demand for the good goes up, so does the price. The price acts as a control on the number of vehicles entering the lane during times of peak demand.

So, congestion will be reduced *in the new managed lane*. On the free lanes, it will be as bad as it is now (or more likely worse, since there are about 150 people a day moving here, most of them with cars).

Capital Metro plans to open Park and Ride lots in the burbs for express buses that will use the managed lanes for no charge, providing a more reliable and faster trip downtown than what they can do now operating in peak congestion. Emergency vehicles will also be able to use the lanes without charge, which will improve incident response on the roadway.

Hope that's a little clearer.

Originally Posted by 10scoachrick

Heck, there's a guy over in the Atlanta forum who thinks significantly limiting parking and raising the parking prices will 'drive' people out of their cars(and their evil ways, I reckon). Why not charge a bundle to drive in the 'special' lane AND charge out the wazoo for parking! THAT should clear the roads right zippy!

That only works when you offer people good, rational, and cost- and time-effective alternatives. We have few of those now in Central Texas, which is why the regional transportation providers and planners are working on Project Connect - a regional high-capacity transit plan for the Austin metro region.