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Hello, i am new to this forum and am moving to Austin, TX. I am building a pool, and I have some questions after meeting with two different pool builders (specifically Cody pools-national brand- and Lakeside pools-local to Austin).
After my meeting with these builders, here are my questions:
1. Pump system - the systems introduced to us include the whisper flow by pentair vs. the inteleflow intelligent variable speed pump by pentair. The builder explained that the whisper flow is a fixed speed that would need to be replaced in three- six years while the inteleflow was a variable self adjusting pump that would last for 15 years (and cheaper in the long run). Accurate proclamations?
2. Salt vs. Chlorine - after the explanation, it seems that pH will need to be calibrated with both systems. Salt systems provide a "smoother" pool feeling, yet can erode any rocks that outline the pool. With both systems, by products of chlorine will exist. What is the feeling upon the board? - salt vs chlorine? The pool builder at Cody seemed to be pro chlorine.
3. Cleaning system - manual vs. robot vs. high powered pump with in pool sprinkler systems. Specifically, the builder explained that the mdx vgb compliant debris drain with sprinklers eliminates the need for any other cleaning systems due to the continuous nature of the system (obviously the most expensive upfront - yet over the long run should pay for itself). What do you recommend, in general?
4. Ultraviolet pool cleaner - as explained above, the salt vs chlorine debate is irrevelant as both produce the chlorine by products. One pool builder explained that an ultraviolet system (specifically the Spectrum light system) will eliminate the by products in any system and can infact make the water drinkable. Generally, does this system actually clean the water and does it effectlvely remove the chlorine by products? Also, how long does it last?
5. Lining - pebble vs plaster? one pool builder said he would give a pebble lining as this would last longer and said he would warranty for 15 years. Does this sound right/accurate?
I know that I am asking several complex questions, but any assistance would be appreciated.
Thank you.
Hello, i am new to this forum and am moving to Austin, TX. I am building a pool, and I have some questions after meeting with two different pool builders (specifically Cody pools-national brand- and Lakeside pools-local to Austin).
After my meeting with these builders, here are my questions:
1. Pump system - the systems introduced to us include the whisper flow by pentair vs. the inteleflow intelligent variable speed pump by pentair. The builder explained that the whisper flow is a fixed speed that would need to be replaced in three- six years while the inteleflow was a variable self adjusting pump that would last for 15 years (and cheaper in the long run). Accurate proclamations?
We have have a Pentair whisper flo system and we have been very happly with it. it is only 3 years old so we haven't had any issues.
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2. Salt vs. Chlorine - after the explanation, it seems that pH will need to be calibrated with both systems. Salt systems provide a "smoother" pool feeling, yet can erode any rocks that outline the pool. With both systems, by products of chlorine will exist. What is the feeling upon the board? - salt vs chlorine? The pool builder at Cody seemed to be pro chlorine.
We built with Cody and made them put in a salt system. We love it, very easy maintenance, just have to make sure to clean the chlorine generator 3-4 times a year. It is a easy operation to do. If you use Oklahoma flagstone, you shouldn't have a problem. Limestone is a problem.
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3. Cleaning system - manual vs. robot vs. high powered pump with in pool sprinkler systems. Specifically, the builder explained that the mdx vgb compliant debris drain with sprinklers eliminates the need for any other cleaning systems due to the continuous nature of the system (obviously the most expensive upfront - yet over the long run should pay for itself). What do you recommend, in general?
we have the polaris 350 cleaner and it does a great job. We decided against the in floor cleaning because of expense and something else that might break. I'm sure it is fine.
Quote:
4. Ultraviolet pool cleaner - as explained above, the salt vs chlorine debate is irrevelant as both produce the chlorine by products. One pool builder explained that an ultraviolet system (specifically the Spectrum light system) will eliminate the by products in any system and can infact make the water drinkable. Generally, does this system actually clean the water and does it effectlvely remove the chlorine by products? Also, how long does it last?
You can add this to any system. We don't have it, probably not a bad thing to have depending on cost.
Quote:
5. Lining - pebble vs plaster? one pool builder said he would give a pebble lining as this would last longer and said he would warranty for 15 years. Does this sound right/accurate?
Pebble! it looks nicer, feels nicer, and lasts a lot longer.
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I know that I am asking several complex questions, but any assistance would be appreciated.
Thank you.
Thing to make sure you get is the wireless remote and LED lights. Good luck, we still enjoy our pool. We used Cody and they have been really good. They have handled any issues professionally.
Hello, i am new to this forum and am moving to Austin, TX. I am building a pool, and I have some questions after meeting with two different pool builders (specifically Cody pools-national brand- and Lakeside pools-local to Austin).
After my meeting with these builders, here are my questions:
1. Pump system - the systems introduced to us include the whisper flow by pentair vs. the inteleflow intelligent variable speed pump by pentair. The builder explained that the whisper flow is a fixed speed that would need to be replaced in three- six years while the inteleflow was a variable self adjusting pump that would last for 15 years (and cheaper in the long run). Accurate proclamations?
2. Salt vs. Chlorine - after the explanation, it seems that pH will need to be calibrated with both systems. Salt systems provide a "smoother" pool feeling, yet can erode any rocks that outline the pool. With both systems, by products of chlorine will exist. What is the feeling upon the board? - salt vs chlorine? The pool builder at Cody seemed to be pro chlorine.
3. Cleaning system - manual vs. robot vs. high powered pump with in pool sprinkler systems. Specifically, the builder explained that the mdx vgb compliant debris drain with sprinklers eliminates the need for any other cleaning systems due to the continuous nature of the system (obviously the most expensive upfront - yet over the long run should pay for itself). What do you recommend, in general?
4. Ultraviolet pool cleaner - as explained above, the salt vs chlorine debate is irrevelant as both produce the chlorine by products. One pool builder explained that an ultraviolet system (specifically the Spectrum light system) will eliminate the by products in any system and can infact make the water drinkable. Generally, does this system actually clean the water and does it effectlvely remove the chlorine by products? Also, how long does it last?
5. Lining - pebble vs plaster? one pool builder said he would give a pebble lining as this would last longer and said he would warranty for 15 years. Does this sound right/accurate?
I know that I am asking several complex questions, but any assistance would be appreciated.
Thank you.
Ask at troublefreepools.com. They have a forum where you post your design/costs and people will review them.
The comments your builders made each time favored the most expensive option. We got quotes from 5 pool builders and cody was one of the worst as far as service, design and upselling. We talked to athena, cody, anthony and sylvan, austex and one other
1) go for a two speed system. It gives you low power (i.e. less expensive) constant flow through your pool and then the high hp when you need it. You get a majority of the value of the variable speed at less cost The variable speeds are more expensive, more prone to issues and require expensive complex circuit boards.
2) salt, salt is problematic in austin. Our neighbors had oklahoma flag that the salt water softened after two years so they had to replace the whole deck. The salt concentration of the water is too low to do damage. However one theory is that in areas with a lot of rain salt never builds up on the deck/coping. In areas with low rain, salt slowly builds up on the deck as water gets splashed out and the salt keeps getting more and more concentrated. They had two young boys and lots of pool parties, so how you use it makes a difference. Some people have reported they rinse their pool off with fresh water regularly and that seems to have helped. Sealing the stone yearly can help too
3) In pool cleaners are better for areas like the desert where they constantly get sand/dirt in the pool. Otherwise for debris they dont do anything. A polaris is probably a better bet
4) These are good for indoor pools, but really dont do anything for outdoor pools. Your outdoor pool gets a ton of UV from the sun. Most of the problems with chloramines (chlorine smell and stinging eyes) are from imbalanced pool chemistry
5) We are going with quartz. Rub your knuckles along a pebble sheen surface and they will get scraped. Do it for hours on end with wet skin. Pebble tec is too rough, pebble sheen is better, but we decided it is still too rough. With proper pool chemistry even a plaster pool can last 20 years.
The trouble free pool guys will talk about
2" returns schedule 40 pipes on plumbing
gunite/shotcrete curing times, 3 weeks to 30 days
rebar at 8 or 10" centers
Thickness of gunite at 9"
Oversizing the filter so you dont have to clean it as often
# of returns
# of lights
Ask at troublefreepools.com. They have a forum where you post your design/costs and people will review them.
The comments your builders made each time favored the most expensive option. We got quotes from 5 pool builders and cody was one of the worst as far as service, design and upselling. We talked to athena, cody, anthony and sylvan, austex and one other
1) go for a two speed system. It gives you low power (i.e. less expensive) constant flow through your pool and then the high hp when you need it. You get a majority of the value of the variable speed at less cost The variable speeds are more expensive, more prone to issues and require expensive complex circuit boards.
I apologize, but this is bad advice. 2 speed pumps WERE a great invention at the time, but are way out of date. Please read: http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/truth2pumpsB.pdf (broken link)
This article will explain the differences between 2 speed and variable speed motors (yes this is a Pentair article, but they also manufacture 2 speed motors).
2) salt, salt is problematic in austin. Our neighbors had oklahoma flag that the salt water softened after two years so they had to replace the whole deck. The salt concentration of the water is too low to do damage. However one theory is that in areas with a lot of rain salt never builds up on the deck/coping. In areas with low rain, salt slowly builds up on the deck as water gets splashed out and the salt keeps getting more and more concentrated. They had two young boys and lots of pool parties, so how you use it makes a difference. Some people have reported they rinse their pool off with fresh water regularly and that seems to have helped. Sealing the stone yearly can help too
Avoid salt systems. Every equipment manufacturer and service company is well aware of the damage salt systems can cause. Most manufacturers/builders will not cover damage caused by salt under warranty. This is a major issue in Texas. Google "Salt Damaged Pools" and see what comes up. Ozone and/or UV will reduce your chlorine use.
3) In pool cleaners are better for areas like the desert where they constantly get sand/dirt in the pool. Otherwise for debris they dont do anything. A polaris is probably a better bet
Again, this is bad advice. In-floor cleaning systems do more then remove debris from the pool (which they are VERY good at). Greatly increased circulation, greater chemical distribution and more consistent heating of the pool are additional benefits that are often over looked. Most companies do not offer in-floor cleaning as it is an expensive and complexsystem to install and therefor do not TRULY understand how they operate.
4) These are good for indoor pools, but really dont do anything for outdoor pools. Your outdoor pool gets a ton of UV from the sun. Most of the problems with chloramines (chlorine smell and stinging eyes) are from imbalanced pool chemistry
This is totally inaccurate. UV sanitizers for pools use a specific wavelength of UV designed to attack the genetic structure of organic contaminants. The water is passed through a "contact" chamber in which the water is passed by an Ultraviolet Bulb that destroys/kills these contaminants. Please reference the following for more detailed explanation: How UV Pool Sanitizers Work | SpectraLight Ultraviolet
5) We are going with quartz. Rub your knuckles along a pebble sheen surface and they will get scraped. Do it for hours on end with wet skin. Pebble tec is too rough, pebble sheen is better, but we decided it is still too rough. With proper pool chemistry even a plaster pool can last 20 years.
Agreed. Remember though, Quartz is basically just another Plaster product (plaster with tiny little quartz bits in it), and has the same vulnerabilities and a regular plaster. Quartz is often MISrepresented as a far superior upgrade to plaster (with a misrepresented warranty as well). Choose which ever you prefer with all the facts on the table.
The trouble free pool guys will talk about
2" returns schedule 40 pipes on plumbing This is a minimum and often doesn't met code (depending on the pump(s)).
gunite/shotcrete curing times, 3 weeks to 30 days Irrelevant for purposes of purchasing a pool.
rebar at 8 or 10" centers Steel schedule (3/8 vs 1/2) also important to this detail.
Thickness of gunite at 9" This is a minimum as well. 12" would be more desirable. Wall thickness will also vary at different location on the pool shell as well.
Oversizing the filter so you dont have to clean it as often This can be important. Also, and perhaps more importantly is your expectation for maintenance and water water clarity you want to have. There are three basic types of pool filters.Please visit the folowing for a basic overview: Pool Filters, Sand, DE, and Cartridge filters, Informational pages on filtering pool water
# of returns
Not enough = poor circulation. Too many = poor circulation. Total returns should be specific for your pool (shape, square footage, pump(s), water features).
# of lights
500 watts per 400 Square feet is a good rule of thumb.
<<There are only three EPA approved primary sanitizers -- chlorine, bromine, and biguanide (aka Baqua, SoftSwim, Revacil, etc.). These are your only choices - period. Everything else is a supplemental sanitizer that MUST be used in conjunction with one of these three if you want sanitized water!>>
With regards to variable vs. two speed pumps:
our energy maximum rate (summer months) over 500 kwh is 7.8 cents/kwh. It can take around 12 years to make up the difference in price with energy savings (based on assumptions). It is like hybrid vehicles, at low gas prices it simply doesnt make economic sense to buy a hybrid.
With regards to minimum sizes of rebar, plumbing, etc, I agree with you there.
<<There are only three EPA approved primary sanitizers -- chlorine, bromine, and biguanide (aka Baqua, SoftSwim, Revacil, etc.). These are your only choices - period. Everything else is a supplemental sanitizer that MUST be used in conjunction with one of these three if you want sanitized water!>> Yes. Ozone and UV (and a few others) are supplemental only. They reduce your active sanitizer level.
With regards to variable vs. two speed pumps:
our energy maximum rate (summer months) over 500 kwh is 7.8 cents/kwh. It can take around 12 years to make up the difference in price with energy savings (based on assumptions). It is like hybrid vehicles, at low gas prices it simply doesnt make economic sense to buy a hybrid. I agree in principle, but Variable speed pumps are also much quieter and for more reliable (higher heat tolerances) than traditional pumps.The true savings is seen on pools with spas. Without a spa your R.O.I. will be much longer.
With regards to minimum sizes of rebar, plumbing, etc, I agree with you there.
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Corrections
