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Sure, but the same logic affects Austin when people move from the city to the burbs. The Austin 'metropolitan area' is growing at a much faster clip than San Diego county despite (or perhaps because of) its smaller population.
Places like San Diego, LA, Chiacgo, and NYC will probably always have population growth due to large amount of immigration (legal!). NYC, where we moved from, is a perfect example. I loved it in my early 20s. There is no place like it. You couldn't pay me to move back and run my business there though, but if I had a kid in his 20s I'd tell them to spend at least a few years there.
San Diego isn't that bad (or that good) but by dint of being a somewhat romantic location I doubt it will ever have problems attracting people from all over: when people unfamiliar with US think of someplace in the US they want to visit, my totally unscientific, anecdotal experience is that they think of New York or California before any part of Texas. In many cases this is because the only thing they knew about Texas was Bush and they were Europeans.
But this equation has almost nothing to do with "most people" who sit down and look at stats on a site like c-d to determine where they should go. Or even a simple internet quiz like find yer (sic) spot dot com. The only people I know who are going to or staying in NYC or LA into their 30s are white-collar law or tech geeks who make a bundle and don't mind giving up a big chunk of it to be there. So I think we are talking in circles, because you are answering the question "is San Diego a cool place to live," while I and most other people on the Austin board answer (and have answered for ourselves) the question "given lots of factors such as cost of living, the job market, and my personal preferences, is Austin a better deal for me than (xyz city)?"
Personally, when I answer that question, San Diego isn't even on the radar despite my personal enjoyment of that part of the country. If you are in my position (owning a business) the only way the math makes any kind of sense is if you are have a lot of investors or are a big tech firm. For 'the rest of us' it isn't just a matter of income tax, it's a hundred little fees and taxes plus general antipathy toward business in the whole state. And while I'm clearly in a minority since most people don't own businesses, those things that would affect me if I live there affect every place you spend your money -- and that is what drives up the cost of living. For it to be purely demand you would have to see astronomical growth rates or else no room to put any more people (ala Manhattan) and I don't think either of those is the case with SD.
Personally, when I answer that question, San Diego isn't even on the radar despite my personal enjoyment of that part of the country. If you are in my position (owning a business) the only way the math makes any kind of sense is if you are have a lot of investors or are a big tech firm. For 'the rest of us' it isn't just a matter of income tax, it's a hundred little fees and taxes plus general antipathy toward business in the whole state. And while I'm clearly in a minority since most people don't own businesses, those things that would affect me if I live there affect every place you spend your money -- and that is what drives up the cost of living. For it to be purely demand you would have to see astronomical growth rates or else no room to put any more people (ala Manhattan) and I don't think either of those is the case with SD.
So again it comes down to what part of the "cost of living" is really that different? Between San Diego and Austin, it's the cost of housing that is the main difference. The rest of the "cost of living" factors aren't that far apart. The prices for food and other items at places like Costco, Walmart, and Target are pretty close to the same. So I disagree that those extra fees that you're stating affect the general population every place that you spend money. It's the demand for housing that has driven up the "cost of living" there because it's a desirable place to live due to the climate and it's proximity to the beach and other attractions. Even in Austin, unless I'm buying gas or food, I rarely walk into a place to buy something. I order it from Amazon or I'll buy it from Costco or Target where the prices are basically the same nation wide. With that said, I agree that Texas is much friendlier to business owners compared to CA.
So again it comes down to what part of the "cost of living" is really that different?
The cost of living index is more than just housing, as we've already covered. The whole point of COL is that it aggregates several factors, any one of which might be distorted. Even so, housing is not just a little different, but significantly different. Gas is also quite a lot more in CA, and income tax affects more than just business owners. So not only are you spending more of a $50k salary for your everyday needs, you're also taking home less of it. Quite a lot less of it.
Gas or food are both parts of the COL. Current lowest price of unleaded gas in San Diego: $4.04/gallon. Austin: $3.59/galloon.
I feel like we are just going in circles because you feel that the COL index is being unfair to San Diego in some way, and yet you share the conclusion. San Diego is flat out more expensive in every measurable metric. If you want to pay it, I would be the last person to blame you. But it is demonstrably the case that the difference in cost of living is not due to the fact that more people want to live in San Diego.
But it is demonstrably the case that the difference in cost of living is not due to the fact that more people want to live in San Diego.
If that isn't the reason, then what is? You're not being clear on what the reason is. Are you saying that the cost of living is higher because of CA state income tax?
Why is the cost of living higher in Austin compared to El Paso?
Coming to Austin from Southern California (I've lived in Santa Barbara, Thousand Oaks, Los Angeles and Santa Clarita), I think that Austin is WAY cheaper than Southern California. Yes, living in a nice area of Austin isn't cheap-cheap, but for comparison's sake, I rent a small, modern, pet-friendly, well-maintained studio here in Austin for around $800... 78703, can walk everywhere downtown, even to SoCo.
Back in SB, for example, rent for an equally small studio -- no pets allowed -- that was super old and always having maintenance issues that was a three-mile walk to downtown cost around $1,100. When a friend and I rented in SB before than, the absolute cheapest 2-bedroom place we could find was $1,500. Here in Austin, my boyfriend and I looked at places around $1,000 for a two-bedroom.
As for the other factors, gas is hanging on here at what, $3.80 these days? A friend visiting from SoCal last week told me gas is just under $5 there. Here in Austin, you can find cheap but delicious eats without supporting a chain. (Not saying there aren't chains; just saying dining out doesn't seem to cost as much as it did back in L.A.)
Not saying I don't miss coastal California. There are days I'd kill to lie out on the beach or walk along a pier. Days in August where I'd like to hang out outside... Times when I'd like to head over to Trader Joe's rather than waste money at Whole Foods. Heck, I even miss the craziness of L.A. every once in a blue moon...
The cost of living is higher because every indexable item that goes into the COL is more expensive in San Diego.
Desirability will drive up housing costs but typically on a neighborhood basis rather than an area-wide basis, and so in most areas this will even out. Demand certainly plays a role, but you're looking at one factor in just one index that goes into COL.
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Why is the cost of living higher in Austin compared to El Paso?
That's what you might expect to see when changing just one index. Housing prices in El Paso are going to be markedly lower, but everything that makes Texas less expensive is still in effect - just like everything that makes CA more expensive is still in effect. I'm actually not even sure that COL takes tax burden into account except inasmuch as it affects things like gas and food prices (which it certainly does) -- my understanding is that COL is calculated based on how far $x amount of take-home spending money goes. The fact that you have to earn 110% of $x in CA to take home $x before you can spend a dollar of it certainly impacts the cost of living for me, but if that's not even built in to it ... yikes!
The cost of living is higher because every indexable item that goes into the COL is more expensive in San Diego.
I'll give this one last reply and then I'll agree to disagree.
So I spent months analyzing all of my costs in CA before I made the move to the Austin area. The only thing that was *substantially* different was the cost of housing. Demand drives the cost of housing. Demand is driven by the number of people that want that housing.
The other factors that you're bringing up like gas and food don't substantially contribute to the cost of living in relation to the cost of housing when evaluating the difference between Austin and San Diego.
Here is how I calculated the difference in gas prices. As you stated, and as it has pretty much been for the past 10 years, gas is about 50 cents more per gallon in San Diego compared to Austin. Let's say I commute 50 miles per day (25 miles each way) five days a week and drive another 50 miles on the weekend. That's a total of 300 miles per week and that's kind of a lot. So that means I drive 15,600 miles per year or 1300 miles per month. My car gets 28 miles per gallon so you divide that 1300 by 28. That means that I put about 46 gallons of fuel in my car every month. Multiply that 46 gallons by 50 cents (the difference in price) and it's $23 more per month for gas in San Diego compared to Austin That is not a significant number especially for someone like the Op of this thread and many other households that take in a 6 figure salary. That's a single lunch for two people at a casual restaurant.
These other components of the cost of living index just aren't significant when comparing San Diego to Austin. I did this type of analysis for every cost before we moved. Cable TV and Internet are the same. Electricity and gas prices even out because of the weather (I didn't even have AC in San Diego, just fans). Food prices have a similar cost difference as gas. It was insignificant in relation to housing. Cost of housing was the only thing that mattered and as you stated when comparing El Paso to Austin, cost of housing is the main factor in the cost of living index between those two cities because all other factors should be about the same.
Demand drives the cost of housing and that is the major factor that makes up the difference in cost of living between San Diego and Austin. Demand for housing is high in San Diego because more people want to live there than the desirable areas there can accomodate.
So I spent months analyzing all of my costs in CA before I made the move to the Austin area. The only thing that was *substantially* different was the cost of housing.
You could've spent 100 years analyzing it, but your methodology is completely arbitrary. The fact that you might find other parts of the index insignificant does not make them insignificant.
The reason why we have things like the COL index is because they are, to the extent possible, agreed-upon indices for these things. None of that is to say that your math for your life and your commute has to line up with it. But when making broad statements like 'here is why it is more expensive,' you can't prove that point by inventing your own numbers: that might be why it seems more expensive to you but if your reasoning here is "I know better than the cost of living index how and why someplace is more expensive" then you're indulging your imagination.
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Demand drives the cost of housing
Even this is grossly oversimplified. Demand is a driver, not the driver. Property taxes, interest rates, employment and business climate are also drivers.
"Those other components" that "aren't significant" make up the entire rest of the index!
No one could dispute that San Diego is one of the most beautiful cities in the country. However, how someone could give up so much to move to Texas is beyond me.... My comments in red.
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Originally Posted by EzPeterson
Yes. San Diego loves to hype itself as "America's Finest City", which is great for tourism. Honestly, SD is probably the best tourist destination out there - I always tell people it was a great place to visit, and a tiring place to live.
From a quality of life perspective, you will find far less:
1. Traffic
Austin has the worst traffic of any mid size metro in the nation. San Diego also has bad traffic, however they have an extensive freeway system and public transportation system to help deal with it.
2. Tourists
Yes far fewer tourists. The only reason anyone would come to Austin would be the ACL or SXSW. Most any convention bypasses Austin and heads to Dallas, Houston, or San Antonio. San Diego has endless things for tourists to do.
3. Bars and Clubs pretending to be something they're not
Im not sure what you mean by this. The bars and clubs on 6th street in Austin know EXACTLY what they are. Havens for inmature college kids who love to get drunk. There are many areas around San Diego that have a bar/club scene. I personally like the area around Horton Plaza. Not a college kid to be found!! However, head up towards La Jolla and the UCSD folks get in your hair!
Yes that is terrible isn't it??. In Austin, everyone drives a huge Pickup or SUV. Yelling off to the public, "im a Texas badass, look how much gas I can guzzle". San Diego is FAR more like North Dallas...mostly cars, Mercedes, BMW's, Porsches..from people who are actually "high end" In San Diego you are pretty much LAUGHED at or consider a hick if you drive a truck. (however, there are some smaller SUV's in SD as well)
5. Taxes
Property taxes? Austin has among the highest property taxes in the nation. FAR less than San Diego...however, SD has income tax which evens it out.
Housing prices are much lower and the whole "chase the next guy up the ladder" mentality that exists from LA south just doesn't exist to the level you're used to right now. People won't care if you valet your F150. People seem to take all this extra time and money saved and enjoy their life, instead of pushing harder on the hamster wheel to stay afloat.
Have you guys been to westlake or many other parts of West Austin? All of these "Plano/Frisco" wannabees are trying HARD to keep up with the Joanses. Where have YOU been? No, that is true....people here won't care if you valet park your F-150 because trucks/SUV's are pretty much all these people valet park in the first place.
So call an apartment locator (they're free to you here), get really specific about what you want and rent yourself a nice place for 6-12 months so you can get your bearings and figure out where you want to stay long term.
"Austin is the city in Texas that is the most similar to San Diego",, you are joking right? Yes, and dirty smelly gym socks could easily be compared to a rose garden?
Put the WEED down sir.......
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Originally Posted by why2does
Sorry, I've skipped the second and third page of post so I might be a little off topic. My two cents, Austin is the city in Texas that is the most similar to San Diego. Its a great place to live once you get settled and get a network of friends. At the same time I guarantee you will miss San Diego! I moved to Austin from San Diego about a year ago because the ratio of cost of living / quality of life. I keep telling myself as soon as I make over $100K, I am going to move back to SD.
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