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Old 10-11-2012, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Austin, TX
16,787 posts, read 49,063,260 times
Reputation: 9478

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainwreck20 View Post
Maybe the "Lance Armstrong 'up yours' Bikeway" would be good...
I second that motion!

 
Old 10-11-2012, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Avery Ranch, Austin, TX
8,977 posts, read 17,552,407 times
Reputation: 4001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
Cheating is cheating even if "everyone's doing it". Can't reward the most successful cheat.
'cept in politics, baseball, Words with Friends, etc, etc.
 
Old 10-11-2012, 02:19 PM
 
3,834 posts, read 5,760,924 times
Reputation: 2556
USADAs full Reasoned Decision

http://velonews.competitor.com/files...d-Decision.pdf
 
Old 10-11-2012, 03:18 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
16,787 posts, read 49,063,260 times
Reputation: 9478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
No question that it was and perhaps still is pervasive...doesn't mean it should be countenanced. Cheating is cheating even if "everyone's doing it". Can't reward the most successful cheat.
Isn't that how we pick our presidents? It is definitely the way we got our governor.
 
Old 10-11-2012, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Volcano
12,969 posts, read 28,436,685 times
Reputation: 10759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Komeht View Post
No question that it was and perhaps still is pervasive...doesn't mean it should be countenanced. Cheating is cheating even if "everyone's doing it". Can't reward the most successful cheat.
That's right. And it also means they should all be punished equally. Let's just strip all the titles to all the races for all of those years, and wipe them completely off the record books.

Replace them instead with the "Not held" notation they use for things like war years.

That would be the only fair outcome.
 
Old 10-11-2012, 04:57 PM
 
3,834 posts, read 5,760,924 times
Reputation: 2556
Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenD View Post
That's right. And it also means they should all be punished equally. Let's just strip all the titles to all the races for all of those years, and wipe them completely off the record books.

Replace them instead with the "Not held" notation they use for things like war years.

That would be the only fair outcome.
I don't know how you untie that gordian knot - I'm sure there will be a lot of debate within the organizations that need to figure it out. That cheating was pervasive among the elite does not mean it was universal. Innocents shouldn't be punished along with the perpetrators. But again, how you sort that out years later seems a bit difficult. Perhaps they'll conclude, as you have, that the best thing to do is wipe it off the books.

It's a shame, it's such a beautiful sport.
 
Old 10-11-2012, 05:18 PM
 
844 posts, read 2,020,149 times
Reputation: 1076
As someone who doesn't follow the sport and really has no emotional attachment to Armstrong or "what he means", it's pretty clear to me that he did everything he's accused of. He's pissed that he passed all the doping tests and they're still coming after him - it's like he thinks "I cheated so good it's not fair to punish me." I don't think how good a bicyclist he is or what he's done to, I don't know, raise cancer awareness or something, makes any difference to whether he did what he's accused of.
 
Old 10-11-2012, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, TX
1,317 posts, read 4,057,576 times
Reputation: 766
It amazes me that he'd even take all that crap (IF he did), after beating cancer. Doesn't all those steroids and other things he's accused of taking, CAUSE cancer?
 
Old 10-11-2012, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX
15,269 posts, read 35,637,527 times
Reputation: 8617
most of what he is accused of taking is pretty much non-hazardous. Blood doping (injecting more of your own red blood cells) is actually pretty benign or even beneficial.
 
Old 10-11-2012, 10:54 PM
 
1,063 posts, read 1,777,163 times
Reputation: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey65 View Post
It amazes me that he'd even take all that crap (IF he did), after beating cancer. Doesn't all those steroids and other things he's accused of taking, CAUSE cancer?
not really...
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