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Old 09-08-2012, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,666 posts, read 60,168,407 times
Reputation: 100989

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
No, I don't base it on one experience. I don't jump to conclusions as some people obviously do.

Why a gift? Because we are really nice people and that's just how we roll. Later on we found out from friends (who are also in real estate - loans and title) that she was supposed to give us a gift. Well, she just disappeared off the face of the earth and we never heard from her again.

I just thought it was becoming more than a coincidence that more and more people I'd come across kind of acted the same way. I know that there are all kinds of people in any profession. I know that the agents around here have a practiced scam going on (this is from THEIR MOUTHS). It wouldn't have mattered who we picked and we actually worked with four different ones over time.

As to whether they'd fake a prequal letter...well, hell...you're already assuming they'd waste their time looking at houses for fun. Why would the prequal letter be that far a jump from there?
Couple of things:

1) As a realtor, I had several customers give me a gift at closing - usually a small gift certificate or something along those lines.

2) Gifts are not EXPECTED or REQUIRED of either party.

3) As for the agents where you live having a "practiced scam" going on, perhaps you should report this scam to the state licensing board - or at the very least, report these people to their brokers. What sort of scam are you talking about?

4) As a realtor, I didn't assume that most buyers were wasting my time - not at all. I mean, nearly everyone lives in a house, right? The average person moves every 5 years. So no, I assume that most buyers are serious. But many - I would venture to say MOST - buyers also need some guidance and some education on the local market, financing options, etc. And the agent needs guidance and some education on the buyers' situation. So an indepth conversation with specific questions and detailed answers needs to happen on the front end -with both parties asking and answering questions.

Red flags should go up when ANY party is being evasive.

 
Old 09-08-2012, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,666 posts, read 60,168,407 times
Reputation: 100989
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
The reason we used the agent is because I said to her (and I honor my word) from the beginning of our relationship,
"Listen, I don't sign any papers that say we're exclusive, or whatever...but if we're working together, then you are our person and we will honor that."

So we honored it.

She did take us to see several other homes prior to that home being put on the market (yes, it was truly a new listing, and no, in the area we were looking in, this was not a terribly expensive house). So she put in legwork and I wasn't going to just cut her out of the deal. That is NOT how I roll. We worked together off and on for 3 months - it was sporadic because inventory around here tends to be low with low turnover. My parents have lived here for 23 years, if that tells you anything. So it's not like we were out every weekend looking at homes. In fact, most of the homes we saw were ones we found online and asked her to show us.

The amount of the commission is between the seller and the agents. That's none of my business as it does not come out of my pocket.

My wife found the house by driving right by it. We lived 2 streets over. It had been on the market for 4 days when my wife drove by it, and we were both surprised that our agent hadn't mentioned it. But we asked her to take us to look at it, and so she took us. Then a couple of days later, they had an open house, so I went and wandered around again...and we made an offer 2 days later.

Everything between us was always very friendly and congenial and she even took us into her confidence about her divorce (from a builder we actually knew) and other stuff going...personal stuff and real estate dish, etc.

OK - so what I get out of this is that advertising by agents did lead you and your wife to that home. The signage, and the Open House. Correct?

Do you begrudge her the split (like I said, unless she is the broker, she did not receive $24,000 in commission)? You yourself say it's not out of your pocket. Why does this bother you? A 50/50 split is common in real estate - especially if the agent is new, inexperienced, or not a heavy producer (splits are often tiered and based on individual production).

Personally, if the seller paid a six percent commission on an $800,000 home that was on the market for less than a week, I'd say thought that's their business, it seems a bit steep. But like I said, I am not familiar with your market. In the market I am in, there is often a lower commission, and commission split, on what would be considered a high priced home for our area (where the median home price is about $170,000). As a realtor, when I listed luxury homes, I would sometimes lower my commission, or tier it - if it sold in X number of weeks, it was at X rate - or I have even written listing contracts where I would take a lower commission but the seller pay for all advertising (though I only did this once or twice and that was when I knew - KNEW -the house was overpriced but the seller refused to lower the initial price - and in those cases, I would also include a clause that if the house hadn't received an offer in two weeks, we would lower the asking price).
 
Old 09-08-2012, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Texas
44,257 posts, read 64,046,055 times
Reputation: 73913
I never said anywhere that I had any problem with her commission.
I was merely addressing the post that said if someone wasn't going to give you prequal and didn't have a high opinion of real estate folks then you wouldn't have a good outcome/make money.
Which is clearly not true.
That's it. I never said I had ANY issue with that at all. Why should I? Like I said, I didn't pay it.

Actually, no one ever asked me to prove anything (prequal). They took me at my word. *shrug*

Yes. A sign and an MLS listing sold the house. If you think that's remarkable marketing, then I don't know what to tell you. Many of the homes here come with a giant fold-out multipage brochure, tv show listings, featured pages on magazines, etc. I just thought it was hilarious how they were trying to act like it was all about how they handled the sale when it reality, it was buyers poised and ready to buy and sellers who had already purchased their other home and wanted out asap. Both flexible about dates and fixing things and I got to meet these people...they were just the sweetest, most darling people. We still talk to them to this day.
 
Old 09-08-2012, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Wonderland
67,666 posts, read 60,168,407 times
Reputation: 100989
Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
I never said anywhere that I had any problem with her commission.
I was merely addressing the post that said if someone wasn't going to give you prequal and didn't have a high opinion of real estate folks then you wouldn't have a good outcome/make money.
Which is clearly not true.
That's it. I never said I had ANY issue with that at all. Why should I? Like I said, I didn't pay it.

Actually, no one ever asked me to prove anything (prequal). They took me at my word. *shrug*

Yes. A sign and an MLS listing sold the house. If you think that's remarkable marketing, then I don't know what to tell you.
Here is what you said:

Quote:
I have overall disdain for real estate agents, and my buyer's agent made $24,000 as well as got a gift from US despite dropping the ball on numerous occasions...I'd call that a successful outcome.
You said your wife "found the house." Your wife saw a sign, and then you went to an Open House hosted by a brokerage.

A sign is more than just "a sign." A real estate sign symbolizes quite a bit - it's representative of a brokerage, which requires professional education, certifications, and ongoing education and expenditures - office space, supplies, a staff, etc. It's representative of the agent and that person's expenses - across the board. It's not just a $36 sign in front of one house, in other words.

To put things in perspective, my hairdresser charges me $45 for a simple cut. Good grief - does it actually COST my hairdresser even $20 to cut my hair? What about $5?

When my doctor repaired my achilles tendon, the injury was not as severe as he first thought it was, so the surgery didn't last 1 1/2 hours - it was over in 30 minutes. Does that devalue his services?

Your agent worked with you for three months. You yourself said that it wasn't an "every weekend thing" and that your viewings were a bit sporadic. I am not sure how many homes you saw with your realtor - you didn't say. But you did say she worked with you for three months. Considering your self professed disdain for real estate agents, and your boot ready to kick aside any realtor who "demanded a prequal letter" (does that include queries about whether or not you intend to finance your home and whether you've met with a lender yet?) - I'd wager you weren't the easiest customer to deal with. Disdain is a hard emotion to mask, even when you're listening sympathetically to her divorce drama.

Anyway, you said your viewings were sporadic. I have no idea why she didn't contact you about that listing - other than the fact that the listing was only a few days old when your wife saw the sign. It doesn't sound like either party was particularly urgent about the search for a house.

One other thing - you stated that you and your family have lived in that area for many years. In that case, the realtor or others in her office may be familiar with you, your reputation, your job, your sources of income, whatever. If someone well known to me or someone in my office came in and I was able to verify through other means that they were "legit," I would possibly not ask probing financial questions. Not right away, anyway. When did you have a discussion with her about how you were going to pay for a house?

I don't really know anything about any of this other than what you choose to share. Your agent probably has a different take on it, as does the listing agent. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. Not saying that you're lying or saying anything intentionally misleading - I'm just saying that different perspectives can see different truths to the same scenario.

Maybe you had a sorry realtor and she just got incredibly lucky. Luck won't carry her far in a real estate career. I've known good realtors and bad ones, and reasonable sellers and unreasonable ones - and good buyers and disdainful, difficult buyers - and everything in between. But the bottom line is this - that realtors and brokers are an integral part of the real estate business because there is a need for their services. A smart, diligent, ethical realtor or broker will probably be successful if they are a hard worker but there's a learning curve - just as there is in any professional career. A prospective buyer or seller should interview several agents and both parties should clearly lay out their expectations. This will help avoid unpleasantries, dissatisfaction, and disdain for everyone involved.

I understand if you choose not to answer, but I am curious as to what you do for a living.
 
Old 09-08-2012, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Texas
44,257 posts, read 64,046,055 times
Reputation: 73913
Kathryn, my disdain didn't formulate until I looked back on the entire experience and realized what kind of people I had been dealing with for the last however many months, etc.

I am actually a very easy person to get along with. Soft-spoken and overly agreeable.
Which is probably why people open up their entire personal lives to me and why people think they can get away with all sorts of bad behavior.

I honestly didn't gel it all together until I was talking to some friends in the business who really let me know how some of the practices I experienced (including refusing to show offers outside the same agency, backstabbing phone calls, undercutting a seller to keep the commission amongst friends, and realtors buying houses before the MLS listing went public) was NOT kosher.
By the time it was all said and done, I had no proof to 'report' to any agencies. Just a bunch of bad behavior over a number of years I could relate to you.

My favorite was a speaker-phone phone call (seller's agent didn't know) where the agent was talking all sorts of **** (this is a different house and agent entirely) without realizing we could hear everything she was saying. It was very eye-opening.
Or when our offer of 20% above asking was never presented because it would not have gone through the same brokerage and the commission would have been split. Can you imagine how ANGRY the sellers would have been to find out that their agent didn't even allow the offer to be presented? The house sold for asking, btw. I would have been POed majorly.

Then it was explained to me by a local loan officer and title specialist (both neighbors of mine) that this is business as usual for these parts. Wow.

I didn't have any ideas of misgivings towards people demanding prequal letters till AFTER I made my purchase...the first time I have ever heard of this practice is on this forum. Like I said, no one had ever asked me anything outside of what I wanted and my price range.

Seems kind of cheesy, though. I think of all the great people I have worked with in the auto industry - don't ask for a wallet biopsy before they spend time bringing me cars and taking their time test driving, researching the market, going out of state to find cars, etc...
 
Old 09-08-2012, 11:49 PM
 
99 posts, read 173,628 times
Reputation: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathrynAragon View Post
To put things in perspective, my hairdresser charges me $45 for a simple cut. Good grief - does it actually COST my hairdresser even $20 to cut my hair? What about $5?
Does it matter, though, if you are choosing to pay for it? You could've gone to Great Clips for $15, you chose the more expensive service.

The point is that if this buyer had a choice, he never would've paid the $24,000, and many others wouldn't, either. Because of that, the money is extracted from the seller who is in a more desperate need of an agent.

That's what bugs me very much. When I'm buying, it's "free", but then you get me when I'm selling, and it really wasn't free at all. I just never had a choice not to pay for a buyers agent.

Otherwise, I don't share stan4's "disdain". There are scam artists and incompetents in every business, and I've seen some truly awful and some incredibly good ones in this particular field. It's easy to get a license and many think it's easy money, so it probably attracts a higher share of questionable characters than some other jobs, but there are still plenty of honest and good ones.
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