Don't most Austinites Oppose Toll Roads? (Houston, Dallas: buying, contractors, salary)

[EzPeterson]

Originally Posted by Newbe10

People like you think that people should pay tolls on the roads until the end of time.

Yes. Users of roads should either subsidize or pay for their use and maintenance entirely, and thus reduce the overall tax/socialist revenue need.

[Newbe10]

Originally Posted by EzPeterson

Well, since the review of this thread shows 13 posters supporting toll roads, and 6 against (I'll give you johnrex62's "troll road" comment as a nay vote), the whole:

"as with this thread. it seems that most Austinites recognize toll roads are a much higher tax to pay..."

comment is - again - totally false. There are 4 ambiguous answers (jb9152, atxcio, mayfair44 and centralaustinite), even if you assume they're "against", the "for" side still has a majority.

So, That makes two false statements now for you to answer. have fun... homie. At least I don't hide behind a username.

I am for building up and not out. However, in the case of many cities in this country (especially in Texas) where intense urban sprawl is already present, I don't think that suburbanites should have to pay a double tax just to commute to the city; whether they are rich or not.

I am not normally one to personally attack someone and I normally accept others opinions, although I don't always agree with them. I am tired and have had a long day, so I apologize for being rude. Looking back at my earlier posts, I can see how rude I was.

However, I will always be a toll-road opponent and stick up for those who are against tolls, even if the roads are nowhere close to being in my area. No one will ever change my views as I am sure no one will ever change yours. Thanks for a good debate.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by Newbe10

Oh really?? well too bad that the vast majority of Texans and motorist throughout the country don't think like you. It is criminal to impose tolls on limited access routes that are already free and paid for. If you don't think so then there must be something really wrong with you.

If all roads were tolled, the cost of goods in all types of stores would be significantly higher. You must be one of those rich people who doesn't care about anyone but themselves.

As for criminal, what statute would be broken? Presumably this would be by legislative action, no? Legislature makes laws...unless barred by higher (Texas constitution, federal), I assume the action woukd be legal.

The impact on cost of goods sold would be deminimis and not affect prices in any measurable way. A few bucks on a truckload of goods is completely negligible.


Roads are never completely "paid for". Roads cost money to maintain. The older the roads the more they cost to maintain.

Plus tolls cover costs to build new roads as well...you guys are always screaming for new roads...well, they have to get funded somehow

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by Newbe10

Yeah, but imposing a toll on existing roads is criminal. The state legislature and the corrupt TXDOT should never be diverting funds away from the transportation department in the first place. In a state as big as Texas, transportation infrastructure should be a top priority, not the fattining of pockets of bureaucrats in Austin and at TXDOT. Toll roads, at least in Texas, are nothing but an example of corruption by state officials.

Please site me the statute that states tolling existing roads is criminal.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by Newbe10

Yeah, I could of, but I think that the responses would have been the same, as with this thread, it seems that most Austinites recognize that toll roads are a MUCH higher tax to pay than simply paying gasoline tax or any other transportation related tax.

Toll roads are nothing more than an outlet for political corruption and the social elite and upper middle class who don't care about anyone but themselves, like EZPeterson. AS long as they can afford it, they don't care about anyone else.

Gasoline taxes are insufficient. Tolls are necessary for those of you who want more roads. Personally, I'm ok with not building anymore of them at all...our growth should be inward not outward.

But as long as the cancer of sprawl spreads, at least impose its costs on the perpetrators of sprawl...tolls ar every targeted And impact users...I can't see what is objectionable abut making user pay

[Newbe10]

Originally Posted by Komeht

Please site me the statute that states tolling existing roads is criminal.

Well, for one, existing limited access highways (including interstates) should NEVER have tolls placed on them. Instead, what should be done would be for the Governor, State Legislature, and TXDOT ending the diversions from the highway fund to other areas.

I understand that as years go by, the cost of maintaining roads goes up as well as the cost for pretty much anything. The problem lies with the state government refusing to adjust the states transportation budget for inflation.

Also, why are people so opposed to even a TINY increase in the gas tax or diverting the tax from car sales to the transportation fund?

As I have said to other posters on here, I am for the upgrading of existing highways to limited access rather than building much more costly new terrain routes.

Toll Roads are simply not the answer, especially since toll authorities do everything that they can to keep them tolled forever. Also, imposing tolls on existing free routes is criminal because our tax dollars already paid for the construction of that route and also pay for the maintenance and upkeep (i.e. such as I-45, I-35, I-20, and I-10 across the state).

[Newbe10]

Originally Posted by Komeht

Gasoline taxes are insufficient. Tolls are necessary for those of you who want more roads. Personally, I'm ok with not building anymore of them at all...our growth should be inward not outward.

But as long as the cancer of sprawl spreads, at least impose its costs on the perpetrators of sprawl...tolls ar every targeted And impact users...I can't see what is objectionable abut making user pay

Well, I do agree with you that sprawl is indeed a cancer and that we should build up. However, isn't that the developers fault for building the sprawl and endless subdivisions in the first place?

If they would have started building up sooner, maybe we wouldn't have the sprawl that we do in many urban areas in this country.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by Newbe10

Well, for one, existing limited access highways (including interstates) should NEVER have tolls placed on them. Instead, what should be done would be for the Governor, State Legislature, and TXDOT ending the diversions from the highway fund to other areas.

I understand that as years go by, the cost of maintaining roads goes up as well as the cost for pretty much anything. The problem lies with the state government refusing to adjust the states transportation budget for inflation.

Also, why are people so opposed to even a TINY increase in the gas tax or diverting the tax from car sales to the transportation fund?

As I have said to other posters on here, I am for the upgrading of existing highways to limited access rather than building much more costly new terrain routes.

Toll Roads are simply not the answer, especially since toll authorities do everything that they can to keep them tolled forever. Also, imposing tolls on existing free routes is criminal because our tax dollars already paid for the construction of that route and also pay for the maintenance and upkeep (i.e. such as I-45, I-35, I-20, and I-10 across the state).

Still waiting for the site...

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by Newbe10

Well, I do agree with you that sprawl is indeed a cancer and that we should build up. However, isn't that the developers fault for building the sprawl and endless subdivisions in the first place?

If they would have started building up sooner, maybe we wouldn't have the sprawl that we do in many urban areas in this country.

No. Developers build in the places and in the manner that we direct them to. Coding is destiny, its the DNA of a city. Our land use codes are upside down. We make sprawl easy and urbanism hard. Developers choose the easy path 99/100 times. Why spend months and years fighting bureaucrats and NIMBYs to get a variance when building. Something to code can break ground right away?

[Newbe10]

Originally Posted by Komeht

No. Developers build in the places and in the manner that we direct them to. Coding is destiny, its the DNA of a city. Our land use codes are upside down. We make sprawl easy and urbanism hard. Developers choose the easy path 99/100 times. Why spend months and years fighting bureaucrats and NIMBYs to get a variance when building. Something to code can break ground right away?

Well, it sounds like there needs to be some serious changes in the land use codes or else we will have to deal with ever growing sprawl forever. I can't even imagine how much the sprawl of cities like Houston, Phoenix, Atlanta, and DFW will be in another 20 years if something doesn't change.