Austin Urban Light Rail Phase 1 - Why Mueller? (2013, theatre)

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by Komeht

Don't you live in Some far flung suburb in Williamson County?

Currently I live in the country, yes. (On 55 acres with horses and cows and donkeys and all, so not quite sure how you get "far flung suburb" - one of your favorite curse words, it would seem - from that.) And also own a home in Barton Hills, five minutes from downtown Austin. And moved to Austin in 1969 and have lived in Austin or environs ever since (and when not living in Austin my husband's business was still there and our house is still there) and our children and friends have lived and still live in Austin, a mere half hour away from the ranch. This has what exactly to do with the point I made about how these things have been done over the decades?

[steve78757]

Originally Posted by tildahat

From people I've talked to, if they could do it by fiat, the Guadalupe/Lamar segment would be first. But the powers that be feel that a combination of politics (NIMBYs, UT really likes the eastern alignment, etc) and effects of past decisions (metrorapid, etc.) make that a no-go as part of the first phase.

So let's say they make their case, and you think they are wrong. Do you plan to vote for it despite reservations, vote against it, or actively campaign against it?

I will vote against it. I will not actively campaign against it.

[tildahat]

Originally Posted by steve78757

I will vote against it. I will not actively campaign against it.

[I'm asking this in a tone of respectful discussion, in case that doesn't come through over the web...]

Why? What if that delays ANY light/urban rail in Austin by another 15+ years? Is getting the best alignment done first more important than getting rail at all?

My assessment is that if this vote fails, the best case scenario is that the lamar/guadalupe line won't come up again for years, and in the end *at best* will be a few years earlier than if we pass the expected phase 1 alignment, but more likely no earlier, or even later. In the meantime we'll have had no rail.

Just MHO, but it's based on talking to people more directly involved in these things...

[steve78757]

Originally Posted by Komeht

The fed dollars are essential to making this happen.

The Feds are not going to throw more money at a different transit on Guadalupe Lamar after investing in BRT. Not going to happen for a decade or more.

I don't think we should be held hostage by a 40 million dollar grant for BRT. I don't know where you stand on that. But I agree with you that this is likely a done deal, I just hope that it's not.

My main point remains that going forward with Mueller will most certainly lead to defeat, for reasons that have nothing to do with density or engineering issues. AISD will be asking for close to one billion dollars this year, yet this council thinks a rushed vote for Mueller has a chance? Federal grants, future density, looking at the big picture, and so on and so forth will all be washed away in the upcoming final landslide defeat for this outgoing city council (good riddance) and urban light rail in Austin. Vision is useless without common sense.

[steve78757]

Originally Posted by tildahat

[I'm asking this in a tone of respectful discussion, in case that doesn't come through over the web...]

Why? What if that delays ANY light/urban rail in Austin by another 15+ years? Is getting the best alignment done first more important than getting rail at all?

My assessment is that if this vote fails, the best case scenario is that the lamar/guadalupe line won't come up again for years, and in the end *at best* will be a few years earlier than if we pass the expected phase 1 alignment, but more likely no earlier, or even later. In the meantime we'll have had no rail.

Just MHO, but it's based on talking to people more directly involved in these things...

Because if Mueller did somehow pass, light rail in Austin (beyond that useless route) would still be doomed for good, this time by way of a real life failed experiment. Except taxpayers would now be out half a billion dollars.

Mueller may one day reach 6,000 residents. Even then only they would benefit while the rest of us pay.

[tildahat]

Originally Posted by steve78757

Because if Mueller did somehow pass, light rail in Austin (beyond that useless route) would still be doomed for good, this time by way of a real life failed experiment. Except taxpayers would now be out half a billion dollars.

Mueller may one day reach 6,000 residents. Even then only they would benefit while the rest of us pay.

I get the bad starter line is a finisher line argument, though I disagree that this line is *that* bad. Red Line was much worse. Mueller won't even be in phase 1. [For the record, I don't live at Mueller, and have a number of criticisms of it.]

What about the Riverside redevelopment which might not happen if rail fails? That's potentially more residents than Mueller, and they'd have direct rail to downtown, the capital complex, UT, possibly the new Med School and the employers that will locate around it (if it's a fraction as big as the Houston med center, this could be a huge employment center) and all this will connect to the red line. Not how I would have done it if I was in charge, but I see it as getting a second or third choice option, not worse than no option.

Again just my $.02.

[steve78757]

Originally Posted by tildahat

I get the bad starter line is a finisher line argument, though I disagree that this line is *that* bad. Red Line was much worse. Mueller won't even be in phase 1. [For the record, I don't live at Mueller, and have a number of criticisms of it.]

What about the Riverside redevelopment which might not happen if rail fails? That's potentially more residents than Mueller, and they'd have direct rail to downtown, the capital complex, UT, possibly the new Med School and the employers that will locate around it (if it's a fraction as big as the Houston med center, this could be a huge employment center) and all this will connect to the red line. Not how I would have done it if I was in charge, but I see it as getting a second or third choice option, not worse than no option.

Again just my $.02.

I actually think the Red Line is great. It connects Leander and far north Austin to downtown. That's what we want commuter rail to do.

I do believe Mueller is going to be phase 1.

I agree with what you are saying about Riverside. It's a shame we'll never get to see that. In my opinion starting with Mueller will doom it before it gets off the ground, or doom after only that phase. I believe that for reasons related to public relations, running an effective campaign against the opposition, and building much needed, city-wide, enthusiasm for light rail on par with what we saw in 2000.

The loss in 2000 with the best alignment possible should tell us we need to stick with that best alignment and run a better campaign to have any shot at all.

[Danbo1957]

I'm 55 now, why should I care about and vote for anything that won't have a direct impact on traffic until ten years from now?

The real issue is what will reduce Austin traffic, and or, allow less travel time? Some relief for those two issues are constantly being done. I don't believe any traffic measures will be enough though, we are always "ten years too late" and several million dollars short.

So as mentioned above, bubble living is in our future. I now live near where I work and shop nearby as well. I haven't been to many other parts of the city in a long time, I used to go everywhere. The only time that I use the highways now are to head out of town, and I time that travel outside of rush hours. I don't need light rail and I'm not going to pay for it so your children can ride it.

Re-designate 130 as IH35, make through traffic take it... then I might listen to other plans.

[mayfair44]

Originally Posted by steve78757

I've heard council members talk about spurring future growth, that connecting to Mueller is part of a larger regional rail picture. But I'm not buying it. You want 550 million dollars to go to Mueller? I will vote no, and I'm a big supporter of light rail. The Red Line already goes right by 45th and I-35. Couldn't we transport the citizens of Mueller a few blocks over to a new Red Line station for less than 550 million dollars?

Great point.

The recent I-35 Mobility Open House proposal map of changes to Airport Blvd, shows a "Future Urban Rail Corridor" that lines up along the Red Line, parallel to Clarkson, btwn 45th and Hancock Center:

- I35 Virtual Open House

Looks like if the Mueller urban rail line goes in, this is where it will hub with the Red Line.

Currently, the Red Line has no stops between Highland Mall and MLK. I could see adding a Metro Rail station there FIRST, then creating a Cap Metro Connector from Mueller, similar to the MLK connectors for UT and DT/Capitol:

Capital Metro - Austin Public Transit
Capital Metro - Austin Public Transit

Then, ridership data could actually be compiled vs estimated, out of Mueller, without going all in, while development in that area continues. Plus, more Metro Rail (northbound and southbound) ridership could be gained from the immediate radius of the surrounding neighborhoods at Hancock. Even if Mueller has the potential, EVERYONE knows the path between Crestview station and DT, along L/G, would blow the doors off that route.

I get that the vote only comes around so many times, but yeah, the idea of folding to Mueller, at the expense of taking a future Guad/Lam line completely off the table sucks. It seems a bit fear mongering to suggest this next round is it, and Austin will never get urban rail if Mueller isn't jammed through.

Start by adding a Redl Line stop at Hancock with a connector bus to Mueller. Seems reasonable.

[gpurcell]

The Mueller route comes with a downtown circulaton route AND a spur up Guadalupe for the campus and a future line up that route. It is a good, solid plan and will have a lot of benefits for things like UT football, SxSW, etc.