Proposal: SINK I-35 (Austin, Cesar Chavez: cars, deal, money)

[jb9152]

While it's nice to think about taking down the wall between downtown and East Austin (personally, I'd love that from an aesthetic and city planning point of view), without capacity enhancements to I-35 the project has little else to recommend it. And if we're talking capacity enhancements, that means a much larger facility, located under a cut and cover arrangement. That will be wildly expensive - well north of the $550 million claimed. That number is laughable.

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by jb9152

While it's nice to think about taking down the wall between downtown and East Austin (personally, I'd love that from an aesthetic and city planning point of view), without capacity enhancements to I-35 the project has little else to recommend it. And if we're talking capacity enhancements, that means a much larger facility, located under a cut and cover arrangement. That will be wildly expensive - well north of the $550 million claimed. That number is laughable.

The "plan" had it widened to 5 lanes each way. Not that it would really help, since it's only a few blocks before it narrows again.

[jb9152]

Originally Posted by Novacek

The "plan" had it widened to 5 lanes each way. Not that it would really help, since it's only a few blocks before it narrows again.

Ah - I hadn't read the plan, so my bad. But you're right - useless. The ring of congestion, where you get that infamous 'standing wave' of traffic every morning, is significantly north and south of downtown.

To truly address the capacity issue, based on a Project Connect study done this past summer, you'd need 12 additional lanes of capacity from 290 south, and 14 additional lanes of capacity from Ben White north to make a dent by year 2035.

Putting the highway underground with only a small expansion (5 lanes for a few blocks), given that, would actually make it much *harder* in the future to expand, because you'd have the complication of having to do more excavation, etc. in the next decade or so. And it's never going to be cheaper than it is today. Whatever you push off to the future will be more expensive once you get to year of expenditure and implementation.

[mimimomx3]

Great idea- let's set up a donation paypal account.

[TexasTallest]

Originally Posted by scm53

Let me introduce you to the Big Dig - planned cost $2.8B, final cost to the taxpayer, $14.6B. Given the inevitable cost overrun, it would be cheaper to BUY SH 130, redesignate it as 35, then variable toll the former 35 between 290 and Ben White to encourage use of the new 35.

Sinclair Black is a great guy, but his experience at forecasting costs of highway projects isn't much greater then, say - Jenny McCarthy's?

i completely agree the estimate is way too low.
Isnt there already a proposal to convert 130 into I-35, redirecting the traffic around the city and redesignate the old I-35 into Business 35? I know the 130 tollroad is owned by a private company atm but ive heard talks of this being thrown around.

[buffettjr]

Originally Posted by scm53

Let me introduce you to the Big Dig - planned cost $2.8B, final cost to the taxpayer, $14.6B. Given the inevitable cost overrun, it would be cheaper to BUY SH 130, redesignate it as 35, then variable toll the former 35 between 290 and Ben White to encourage use of the new 35.

Sinclair Black is a great guy, but his experience at forecasting costs of highway projects isn't much greater then, say - Jenny McCarthy's?

The Big Dig is not even remotely close to the type of project being discussed here. Many of its problems, time overruns, and cost overruns were due to the ocean, its related leaking, the soil surrounding it, and the corrosive effects of saltwater. I'm not making excuses for their engineers, but I'm saying this is not near the project that theirs was. Additionally, keep in mind that the cost of construction is not the same thing as the final cost to the taxpayer -- the taxpayer will enjoy dividends from the investment; and I'm not just talking about frou frou quality of life dividends that a tea party curmudgeon would not appreciate () but real money. Similar to the Waller Creek development, you gain new real estate which is very valuable to the market and is a much more efficient use of land to the city who suddenly finds expensive new urban property on its tax rolls.

As for his costs, while they are no doubt low, they may no the as wildly low as people assume. His costs folded up the entire Waller Creek construction project into this project by routing the water differently and in conjunction with this project. We're already spending a pretty penny on that project.

[ScoPro]

Originally Posted by gpurcell

Took the liberty of cleaning up your picture a bit

Thanks, it looks better.

My scanner doesn't work.....and I'm computer illiterate.

[jb9152]

Originally Posted by mimimomx3

Great idea- let's set up a donation paypal account.

Or a Kickstarter!

[jb9152]

Originally Posted by buffettjr

As for his costs, while they are no doubt low,

...winner for the understatement of the year award...

The overarching point here is that not only is the estimate low, but the contemplated facility has little to no bang for the buck for capacity, which is the *primary* issue. Yes, as I said, I would love to see the wall between downtown and East Austin removed. But only if you can simultaneously attack the capacity issue.

Building a facility that has five lanes for a string of blocks through downtown not only does little or nothing to address future demand, putting it underground in the first place makes it much more expensive to expand (as you'll inevitably have to do at some point).

I love, LOVE the idea in concept because of its aesthetics. But the sad fact is that it doesn't address the primary issue - huge demand growth. To me, it's not worth spending the $550 million (times about 4 or 5, by the time the project is done) unless you can offer some real capacity improvement.

[mackenziep]

There's also the problem of willingly entering a 5 lane enclosed space with everyone trying to go 80 mph. Because you know that's what it will be like. "Merge or die", but on steroids.

Nope.