Questions about CircleC/Steiner Ranch/Avery Ranch (Austin, West Lake Hills: sale, condo)

[Trainwreck20]

He wasn't saying they are 'the same', he was just indicating that they both have name recognition......

[tildahat]

Originally Posted by Trainwreck20

He wasn't saying they are 'the same', he was just indicating that they both have name recognition......

Yes.

[Kosmonaut]

okay. We're talking about brand recognition. I thought we were comparing actual neighborhoods.

Doesn't every neighborhood have a brand? Avery Ranch, Teravista, SoCo, Steiner Ranch, Circle C, Western Oaks, French Place. They all have brands.

[austin-steve]

Originally Posted by tildahat

Of course people who live there don't care. If they did, they wouldn't live there. And I agree the concern has lessened greatly in frequency and intensity over time. But *in the last month* I have heard someone go on a fire breathing rant about Circle C/SOS, so its out there still. That's why I mentioned it. I have no idea if the OP would care about that either way, I think it's possible its relevant to her. "Prius" is part of her username after all....

I think the other thing I mentioned is relevant too. People have heard of Circle C and it has a rep as a highly affluent suburb, somewhat like Westlake. Therefore people have preconceptions about them. Some buyers might like that, some might want to avoid it, some don't care either way. I think the various "Oaks" neighborhoods are just as nice but are basically anonymous to most Austinites. For some that's a plus.

I think these things are factual observations. Just throwing them out there for the OP.

I think calling an observation like that "factual" is incorrect.

I live in Westlake, in a neighborhood not much different than Cherry Creek in South Austin. Old 1970s tract homes. You couldn't tell the difference driving through and looking at the houses between my neighborhood and south Austin 78745. Nor do my neighbors seem "highly affluent". I know I'm not. Yes, there are affluent areas of Westlake, and I do know affluent people, but a lot of the population now is babyboom/emtpynesters who bought over a decade or two ago when the price differential was mush less.

Same with Circle C. The people who live there are not "highly affluent". I would call it an "average suburban" neighborhood with little demographic difference with Steiner, Avery, or any other planned unit community in or around Austin with homes selling in the $150 +/- per sqft range and good schools. Lots of middle managers, stay at home moms and people with active lifestyles. Lots of Toyotas, Honda Accords and Minivans in all neighborhoods like this. Not exactly the vehicles of the wealthy and pretentious.

I think the vision of Gary Bradly has proven out. You know he actually had to fight the city to have the divided parkways you see on Slaughter and Escarpment. That wasn't the "typical" road design back them. The city wanted a gross "double yellow" two-way street with no divider. He had aesthetic vision and a sense of what families wanted in a neighborhood and he created it. If some diehard fringe subset of people want to carry a torch of hatred for him about that, so be it. I think it's silly to do so.

Steve

[steve78757]

Originally Posted by austin-steve

I think calling an observation like that "factual" is incorrect.

I live in Westlake, in a neighborhood not much different than Cherry Creek in South Austin. Old 1970s tract homes. You couldn't tell the difference driving through and looking at the houses between my neighborhood and south Austin 78745. Nor do my neighbors seem "highly affluent". I know I'm not. Yes, there are affluent areas of Westlake, and I do know affluent people, but a lot of the population now is babyboom/emtpynesters who bought over a decade or two ago when the price differential was mush less.

Same with Circle C. The people who live there are not "highly affluent". I would call it an "average suburban" neighborhood with little demographic difference with Steiner, Avery, or any other planned unit community in or around Austin with homes selling in the $150 +/- per sqft range and good schools. Lots of middle managers, stay at home moms and people with active lifestyles. Lots of Toyotas, Honda Accords and Minivans in all neighborhoods like this. Not exactly the vehicles of the wealthy and pretentious.

I think the vision of Gary Bradly has proven out. You know he actually had to fight the city to have the divided parkways you see on Slaughter and Escarpment. That wasn't the "typical" road design back them. The city wanted a gross "double yellow" two-way street with no divider. He had aesthetic vision and a sense of what families wanted in a neighborhood and he created it. If some diehard fringe subset of people want to carry a torch of hatred for him about that, so be it. I think it's silly to do so.

Steve

Hate is a strong word. I just think he's a greedy SOB who ignored the will of Austin voters and ran to his buddies in the legislature to get what he wanted.

"In 1995, Bradley convinced legislators to create the Southwest Travis County Water District, an entity that prevented the city from enforcing its water quality regulations at Circle C but forced the city to continue paying the debts it incurred while extending utilities to Circle C. The measure also prevented the city from annexing the land within the district, even though the annexation provision was part of the city's original deal with Bradley. The water district bill was declared unconstitutional in 1997 by District Court Judge Scott McCown, who noted the narrow focus of the bill, saying that if laws can be passed to favor particular people, then the "private interest will prevail over the public interest." Indeed, the city has won several important court battles with Bradley and the Legislature. But the fighting has been expensive. In mid-1998, in response to an open records request from the Chronicle, the city's legal staff estimated it had paid outside lawyers more than $2.4 million to defend the Save Our Springs Ordinance and fight the various Austin-bashing bills passed by the Legislature."

Bradley Interview

[Debsi]

Everybody, please reread the OP before making any more responses. Let's try to stay on topic!!

[tildahat]

Originally Posted by austin-steve

I think calling an observation like that "factual" is incorrect.

I live in Westlake, in a neighborhood not much different than Cherry Creek in South Austin. Old 1970s tract homes. You couldn't tell the difference driving through and looking at the houses between my neighborhood and south Austin 78745. Nor do my neighbors seem "highly affluent". I know I'm not. Yes, there are affluent areas of Westlake, and I do know affluent people, but a lot of the population now is babyboom/emtpynesters who bought over a decade or two ago when the price differential was mush less.

Same with Circle C. The people who live there are not "highly affluent". I would call it an "average suburban" neighborhood with little demographic difference with Steiner, Avery, or any other planned unit community in or around Austin with homes selling in the $150 +/- per sqft range and good schools. Lots of middle managers, stay at home moms and people with active lifestyles. Lots of Toyotas, Honda Accords and Minivans in all neighborhoods like this. Not exactly the vehicles of the wealthy and pretentious.

I think the vision of Gary Bradly has proven out. You know he actually had to fight the city to have the divided parkways you see on Slaughter and Escarpment. That wasn't the "typical" road design back them. The city wanted a gross "double yellow" two-way street with no divider. He had aesthetic vision and a sense of what families wanted in a neighborhood and he created it. If some diehard fringe subset of people want to carry a torch of hatred for him about that, so be it. I think it's silly to do so.

Steve

I think you are arguing against points I never made. I merely mentioned that Circle C is still a point of controversy for some people. I mean, it involved actions by the legislature, went to the Texas Supreme Court, etc. (And SOS of course went all the way to the US Supreme Court.) There was a documentary made about it a few years ago. It's been used as a case study in college political science classes. Surely we can agree that's not typical for a neighborhood?

My other point was that, like Westlake, it has a reputation as a highly affluent neighborhood. I think that's true. People think of it that way. Maybe if I drop 'highly' you'd agree? I see realtors use 'prestigious' in listings for Circle C, for example. I've never seen a listing for "prestigious Manor".

So I stand by statements, though I readily admit I have not published research in a peer reviewed journal on the subject. I'd be really surprised if many, many more Austinites hadn't heard of Circle C than say Villages at Western Oaks. And I think that would be either because of the SOS controversy or that it's just a well known affluent neighborhood.

Regarding the demographics of West Lake, I'm sure there are tons of people there who couldn't afford it by today's prices - in fact I know some of those people - just like in many other parts of Austin, but putting 3-2 into austin home search and selecting West Lake Hills, the listings start at $565k and the majority are over one million. Median household income in Austin is like $70k. That family is not buying in West Lake.

Back to Circle C - same search gets a number in the upper 200s, mostly 290s in Circle C North, Circle C Ranch you have to go into the 300s. Using the 2.5 rule for the median family, you get a target price of $175k, so I'll stand by my assertion that the majority of Austin families can't even begin to think of buying there. That's how I define affluent - you have options the majority don't.

Regarding divided roads, etc. from your last point, that's not really relevant to the controversy. No one's arguing it's not a 'nice' development in that sense. The point was that many thought that area shouldn't be developed at all for environmental reasons, the voters passed a law to that effect, and it was circumvented. That's true whether the development ended up being a great place to live or not.

Edit: Wrote this before seeing deletions and mod admonition. To the OP's point: Check out the neighborhoods north of Circle C as well. They are also nice, perhaps cheaper, a little closer in, and it would be impossible to have a thread requiring moderator deletions about Village of Western Oaks or Beckett Meadows! : )

[Prius732]

Originally Posted by tildahat

Of course people who live there don't care. If they did, they wouldn't live there. And I agree the concern has lessened greatly in frequency and intensity over time. But *in the last month* I have heard someone go on a fire breathing rant about Circle C/SOS, so its out there still. That's why I mentioned it. I have no idea if the OP would care about that either way, I think it's possible its relevant to her. "Prius" is part of her username after all....

I think the other thing I mentioned is relevant too. People have heard of Circle C and it has a rep as a highly affluent suburb, somewhat like Westlake. Therefore people have preconceptions about them. Some buyers might like that, some might want to avoid it, some don't care either way. I think the various "Oaks" neighborhoods are just as nice but are basically anonymous to most Austinites. For some that's a plus.

I think these things are factual observations. Just throwing them out there for the OP.

I appreciate the insight...

My husband and I each have our own Prius,we purchased 2 new ones in 2012 after never owning hybrids.Best thing we ever did Before that we had a Saab and a Volvo....we are not Escalade driving people...no offense to Escalade drivers

Our goal is to surround ourselves with educated neighbors.I could careless what cars they drive or how many vacations they take a year. A safe area with educated neighbors and good achool is top priority for us...

[Kosmonaut]

The average home value in 78739 is only 268K. I would not call that wealthy. Where did this supposedly wealthy reputation come from?

[EzPeterson]

Originally Posted by Prius732

I appreciate the insight...

My husband and I each have our own Prius,we purchased 2 new ones in 2012 after never owning hybrids.Best thing we ever did Before that we had a Saab and a Volvo....we are not Escalade driving people...no offense to Escalade drivers

Our goal is to surround ourselves with educated neighbors.I could careless what cars they drive or how many vacations they take a year. A safe area with educated neighbors and good achool is top priority for us...

You're really going to find that in any of the three neighborhoods you identified. Steiner is going to be a little more insular, as it's a bit more isolated than the other two - but does have easier lake access, if that's your thing.

Bottom line, I'd pick the one closest to work.