Texas memorials to those who fought for slavery (Austin, Jefferson: live in, homeless)

[CarnivalGal]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

Regarding the purpose for the Civil War, from Lincoln's Inaugural Address, March 4, 1861:

"(Reference to prior speeches he had made.) I do but quote from one of those speeches when I declare that 'I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so.' Those who nominated and elected me did so with full knowledge that I had made this, and many similar declarations, and had never recanted them."

The Emancipation Proclamation applied only to those slaves in the states that were in the Confederacy, and did not apply to the five slave states that did not secede. It was a tactic of war, not a declaration of the original purpose of that war, which was to keep those individual states of the United States who wished to secede from doing so and thus preserve the Union.

The various statues and monuments to the Confederate dead have more to do with honoring those who fought for what they believed in than they have to do with slavery, and with recognizing that act of bravery and sacrifice.

The slaves in Texas weren't officially freed until Lee surrendered, awfully coincidental if the war wasn't about slavery.

[scm53]

Originally Posted by centralaustinite

FALSE! FALSE!

Phony history controversies will swell with Lincoln, Civil War anniversaries

MISLEADING! MISLEADING!

I never said under who or where they served. Your entire premise is based on two battalions alleged to have been in combat under Jackson. One don't have to fire a rifle to "serve". Marine aircraft mechanics are just as valuable as infantrymen.

Noted black abolitionist Frederick Douglas disagrees with you:

Frederick Douglas reported, “There are at the present moment many Colored men in the Confederate Army doing duty not only as cooks, servants and laborers, but real soldiers, having musket on their shoulders, and bullets in their pockets, ready to shoot down any loyal troops and do all that soldiers may do to destroy the Federal government and build up that of the…rebels.”

So does Walter Williams.

[scm53]

Originally Posted by mm57553

The slaves in Texas weren't officially freed until Lee surrendered, awfully coincidental if the war wasn't about slavery.

Logic 101. Correlation is not causation.

You really need to read the history of the Emancipation Proclamation and understand what really happened.

[migolito]

It's amazing how many 1861 views are alive and well in 2013...

Welcome to Texas!

[CarnivalGal]

Originally Posted by scm53

Logic 101. Correlation is not causation.

You really need to read the history of the Emancipation Proclamation and understand what really happened.

I have, thanks. And I didn't mention the Emancipation Proclamation. I said that the slaves were freed right after Lee surrendered. How ironic that the end of the war freed the slaves, especially when the war supposedly was not about slavery.

[CarnivalGal]

Originally Posted by scm53

MISLEADING! MISLEADING!

I never said under who or where they served. Your entire premise is based on two battalions alleged to have been in combat under Jackson. One don't have to fire a rifle to "serve". Marine aircraft mechanics are just as valuable as infantrymen.

Noted black abolitionist Frederick Douglas disagrees with you:



So does Walter Williams.

Of course there were black people serving roles for the confederate army - just like they served roles at plantations. It's not as though they really had much of a choice. Just because they were now cooking for people on the front lines instead of the house doesn't mean they were doing it because they truly supported the cause and hoped that their way of life didn't change.

[JackGriffin]

Originally Posted by mm57553

The slaves in Texas weren't officially freed until Lee surrendered, awfully coincidental if the war wasn't about slavery.

As I stated earlier, slavery was a large part of the war but not at the outset, and the abolition of slavery was not Lincoln's original motivation for this war (as he himself stated).

The OP is taking a very narrow viewpoint by assuming that having a memorial for a person automatically means we support slavery. The story is much more complicated, and current research shows that racist attitudes in the US are distinguished geographically by an east/west comparison, not a north/south one.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by mm57553

Oh, and I totally agree about the live music scene. Yes, there is a lot of live music, but most of it is just bad, garage bands playing at restaurants and bars. Very few are truly undiscovered talents.

This is so far from the truth I find it hard to believ you live here at all. Any given night in Austin there are amazing bands and musicians all over the city

[migolito]

You build and maintain a memorial at the state capital to demonstrate to all who would see it that you honor the person(s) and the cause that person stood for and what YOU stand for. You can continue to hide behind the term "states rights" as if the term actually means something other than 'pro-slavery', as many did in 1861, but, the issue was settled in 1865. You can't put Jefferson Davis quotes glorifying the sacrifices made by pro-slavery troops on your memorials (and there are at least 3 on the Capital grounds contrary to others posts) and claim with a wink and a nod that it was about States Rights, anymore than you would quote Adolf Hitler and his efforts were about German solidarity.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by migolito

Seriously, it's apparent that Austin is attempting to make an effort to clean itself up. New building, new construction cranes dot the skyline. BUT, the place is a filthy mess. On any weekend night the sidewalks are covered in vomit, drunks stagger down the street urinating when they feel the need, homeless people are sherltered in many of the high rises downtown at taxpayer expence and every morning the parking lots under the freeway is the feeding site where hundreds of homeless gather for free meals. The music venues are stale beer smelling filthy rooms who's entrances are guarded by knuckle dragging thugs. The music is second rate cover crap thats played mechanically at best. Nothing original, nothing fresh, nothing from the heart. These are not musicians, they are not poets, they are simply making noise for the money, like a monkey dancing for the accordion. On occasion a first rate band does play, but, that is the exception that gets coverage and certainly not the rule.
Its a place to go get drunk and brawl. Austin will not be a real 'Live Music Capital' until it makes a decision to change.

If you can't find a decent show to go to on any given night in Austin then you are challenged and quite probably deficient.