78745 the New 78704? (Austin, Round Rock, Pflugerville: HOA, new construction, high schools)

[Trainwreck20]

In Houston, I have several friends that ride the city bus to their 6 figure jobs.....

[787]

The problem with public transportation is that the city will force a moral imperative upon these "mixed used corridors" that will involve low income housing and eff the whole thing up. Middle class people do not want to live in a house/condo that's a $1 bus ride from a section 8 complex. There needs to be barriers if you going to sell urban Austin to the middle class.

Stop forcing affordable housing down our throats, and the rest will take care of itself.

[Alex Austin]

Exactly what I was thinking, I have a CPA neighbor who takes the bus to work downtown straight up manchaca so that he doesn't have to deal with parking and go by the bus stop in the evening and you're more than likely to see people waiting to grab the bus to go downtown for drinks instead of risking a DUI. Not even to mention the hue amount of people who hop on the bus for acl, sxsw, etc. It's a bit pompous to think that only riff raff take public transport.

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by 787

The problem with public transportation is that the city will force a moral imperative upon these "mixed used corridors" that will involve low income housing and eff the whole thing up. Middle class people do not want to live in a house/condo that's a $1 bus ride from a section 8 complex. There needs to be barriers if you going to sell urban Austin to the middle class.

Stop forcing affordable housing down our throats, and the rest will take care of itself.

Did you read what I said about the Seattle system when I was using it? "Section 8" people riding with high level executive management all on the same bus, no one having any problem with it. It can be done, but people have to be willing and, most especially, able to put their prejudices aside. Fortunately, Texas is the kind of place where, further out in the country, you can see a mansion (not a McMansion, a real mansion) right next to a doublewide (each on their own 10+ acres, of course), and they consider each other not rich or poor but neighbors. Hopefully we won't lose that in the mass influx.

[EzPeterson]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

I'm somewhere in the middle on this one. Public transportation CAN be a good thing, if done right, and, in Texas, if it doesn't try to replace the automobile entirely. That's just not going to happen because of the nature of our state and its wide open spaces - approaching this as if, of course, something that works well in a much smaller, more crowded area will transplant wonderfully here and won't we just love it when we change ourselves into an imitation of that other place is doomed to failure (and makes you annoying as heck to the natives, as well).

What's needed is public transportation that is well-thought-out, that doesn't try to replace cars (For example, when talking to mothers of young children who are relocating to the area and showing them properties along the Metroline, for example, one concern was that if they worked downtown and their child was in daycare near home, if the child got sick getting to daycare and getting them home would be a nightmare and having a car at work would be vastly preferable, and that's a very reasonable concern for them) but that supplements them in a reasonable fashion. Texas IS spread out, people do sometimes live far from work, and if that really bothers you, you need to either live downtown, or you need to go somewhere where that's not the case.

I can remember lo these many decades ago living in Seattle briefly. At the time, their public transportation system was awesome, and everyone from every economic strata used them - I rode the bus with everyone from the obviously poor to executive level management. The system was well designed so that you didn't have to go downtown and back out to get across town - this was key to its success. There were still people who drove, but a lot of people used the bus system. Both worked in harmony. That's what we need here.

Either side being judgmental of the other isn't going to accomplish anything. Trying to make Texas into something other than what it is by the very nature of its geography and its people isn't going to accomplish anything good. Looking at the reality of both and coming up with something that serves both, even if it's not a replica of a public transportation system in an entirely different kind of place, won't be easy, but it's what's needed.

Oh - never said anything about trying to force people out of their cars, just providing better and more reasonable options for those that would like ot dramatically minimize or eliminate their use altogether. Is that going to work for the suburban mom of 3? Eh, maybe - certainly not with the metro rail and their "once an hour" trains, but that's another story.

More and more poeple are scrapping the car thing, or going with car share programs (i.e. Car2Go). It has nothing to do with trying to change Texas, it's about the overall changing behaviors out there, along with the fact that we're pretty much capped out on infrastructure in many of the central neighborhoods, despite the fact that more and more people are moving there.

Seattle does have a really cool system, I doubt I'll ever get to see somethign like that in my lifetime in Texas, but close would be good enough for me.

[Alex Austin]

Originally Posted by 787

The problem with public transportation is that the city will force a moral imperative upon these "mixed used corridors" that will involve low income housing and eff the whole thing up. Middle class people do not want to live in a house/condo that's a $1 bus ride from a section 8 complex. There needs to be barriers if you going to sell urban Austin to the middle class.

Stop forcing affordable housing down our throats, and the rest will take care of itself.

Speak for yourself about the middle class. I have a middle-upper class income and have none of the issues with people having a lower income that you are referring to. There is section 8 housing near my neighborhood and it is kept very clean and the people that live there are just people getting by the best they can, just like all of us.

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by EzPeterson

Oh - never said anything about trying to force people out of their cars, just providing better and more reasonable options for those that would like ot dramatically minimize or eliminate their use altogether. Is that going to work for the suburban mom of 3? Eh, maybe - certainly not with the metro rail and their "once an hour" trains, but that's another story.

More and more poeple are scrapping the car thing, or going with car share programs (i.e. Car2Go). It has nothing to do with trying to change Texas, it's about the overall changing behaviors out there, along with the fact that we're pretty much capped out on infrastructure in many of the central neighborhoods, despite the fact that more and more people are moving there.

Seattle does have a really cool system, I doubt I'll ever get to see somethign like that in my lifetime in Texas, but close would be good enough for me.

It's not just "suburban moms", EZPeterson; mothers everywhere have that issue. I raised my kids right smack dab in the middle of Austin - Highland Park and Barton Hills, the latter five minutes from downtown, about as far from a "suburban mom" as you can get - and there were times when I needed to be at different schools (public and private) on opposite sides of town for different kids at the same time or very close to it, and even the best bus system wasn't going to do it. The reason I mentioned forcing Texans to give up their cars as being a goal is because I hear that attitude - of course, ANYONE who has ANY sense wants to get rid of their cars! - expressed either bluntly or theoretically subtly all the time by proponents of public transportation - often by people who don't even realize they're doing it but who think public transportation is the be all, end all of life.

That's why I said I'm in the middle on this one. I can see the advantages of both - and I can see the judgmentalism in both. A good public transportation system that SUPPLEMENTS Texas' car culture is going stand a lot better chance of being accepted. Which means that those parking lots you mentioned above are still going to be needed. It means that people are going to need to be comfortable with the bus system (I don't see a primarily train-driven system as being able to accomplish the flexibility that is needed for something like the Seattle system I was describing without wiping out large swaths of Austin, which sort of defeats the purpose). Trains are good for getting into town, but something more bus-oriented is going to be needed for getting around town.

[787]

Originally Posted by Alex Austin

Speak for yourself about the middle class. I have a middle-upper class income and have none of the issues with people having a lower income that you are referring to. There is section 8 housing near my neighborhood and it is kept very clean and the people that live there are just people getting by the best they can, just like all of us.

You don't have kids in school, do you.

There are schools in central Austin that have 90% poor students, but the average house price of the surrounding neighborhood approaches $500,000 or more.

It's pretty obvious that the middle class has issues with poor people when they won't even send their kids to the local school because it's been given to the section 8 crowd and ruined.

Thanks, Austin City Council.

[EzPeterson]

Originally Posted by 787

You don't have kids in school, do you.

There are schools in central Austin that have 90% poor students, but the average house price of the surrounding neighborhood approaches $500,000 or more.

It's pretty obvious that the middle class has issues with poor people when they won't even send their kids to the local school because it's been given to the section 8 crowd and ruined.

Thanks, Austin City Council.

You really have issues with diversity and economic disparity, don't you? Pretty poor example to set for those kids in school.

[787]

Originally Posted by EzPeterson

You really have issues with diversity and economic disparity, don't you? Pretty poor example to set for those kids in school.

How do you explain the local homeowners unwillingness to send their kids to these schools?