Latest bike, walk, transit usage data (San Antonio, Austin: crime, to live in, price)

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by Komeht

You ever experienced DC in the summer? It's like Houston, only more humid.

And yet, it's one of the most walkable, bike able, transit oriented cities in the US.

And its winters are far harsher than Austin's.

The climate thing is a red herring. The reason greater Austin won't be walkable, transit oriented city in our lifetime is because it was built to be a sprawling suburban mess of a city.

Before 1945 - when Austin was built on a compact and connected grid it was perfectly walkable. And that was in the days before air-conditioning.

DC the city (all 60 square miles of it), or DC the metro? In the greater DC Metro (NoVA sprawl and such) walkability/bikability is no better than Austin. Probably worse.

I can't tell from this study whether its city or metro based. If the former, then its hard to make apples-to-apples comparisons with sun-belt cities (where the sprawl is in the same municipality) and older cities (many of which still have metro sprawl, just in different cities). As you say, the central city portion of Austin (which is most comparable to DC the city) is a lot more bikeable/walkable/transit-oriented.

[verybadgnome]

Originally Posted by scm53

At least being a "sprawling suburban mess of a city" is good for your mental health. Urban living is proven to drive you crazy.

And long commutes have the same effect:

Your Commute is Slowly Killing You - Eric Jaffe - The Atlantic Cities

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by Novacek

DC the city (all 60 square miles of it), or DC the metro? In the greater DC Metro (NoVA sprawl and such) walkability/bikability is no better than Austin. Probably worse.

I can't tell from this study whether its city or metro based. If the former, then its hard to make apples-to-apples comparisons with sun-belt cities (where the sprawl is in the same municipality) and older cities (many of which still have metro sprawl, just in different cities). As you say, the central city portion of Austin (which is most comparable to DC the city) is a lot more bikeable/walkable/transit-oriented.

Apples to Apples city of Austin to city of DC it isn't even close, Austin is a sprawled out mess, almost completely Unwalkable save a very small percentage that isn't very walkable, but somewhat better than the nightmare of the rest of Austin, compared with DC which is a walkers paradise.

Comparing metro areas Austin would fare only slightly better as DC has excellent transit at least to nearly all the major surrounding suburban centers and Austin has one, not very good, line. Plus, some suburbs of DC are excellent models of walkable cities themselves such as Alexandria, while Austin has zero.

[orngkat]

[quote]Even mass transit can require one to sit outside in the heat and humidity for long periods of time waiting for a bus. [LEFT]One of the reasons I don't use the bus more often is that the bus stops are mostly very "unfriendly". Perhaps just a pole much too close to the road, or a metal bench placed directly in the sun, no covers to shade out rain or hot sun, etc. They are dehumanizing places. There is a stop on the NW corner of Guadalupe and 45th (I think that's where it is) where the riders mostly sit far back from the road under the trees to wait rather than on the one metal bench right next to the road. [/LEFT]

[scm53]

Originally Posted by verybadgnome

And long commutes have the same effect:

Your Commute is Slowly Killing You - Eric Jaffe - The Atlantic Cities

Where you live has nothing to do with the length of your commute. I live in suburbia, and I will bet a steak dinner at Perry's Steakhouse my commute is shorter than yours. So no, MY commute isn't killing me.

You can just as easily have a long commute in a dense urban setting as a suburban one. Many residents of NYC have longer commute times than the average here in Austin. As a state, NY had the highest percentage of workers with long commutes - with the preponderance of those workers being in NYC.

So when are you buying me that steak?

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by scm53

Where you live has nothing to do with the length of your commute. I live in suburbia, and I will bet a steak dinner at Perry's Steakhouse my commute is shorter than yours. So no, MY commute isn't killing me.

You can just as easily have a long commute in a dense urban setting as a suburban one. Many residents of NYC have longer commute times than the average here in Austin. As a state, NY had the highest percentage of workers with long commutes - with the preponderance of those workers being in NYC.

So when are you buying me that steak?

Are you seriously trying to argue that an average suburban dweller's commute is shorter than an average city dweller's? Seriously?

Because I'd be happy to pull out study after study after study that contradicts that claim.

Or are you arguing you're the exception to the rule? In which case - what point are you trying to make?

[scm53]

Originally Posted by Komeht

Are you seriously trying to argue that an average suburban dweller's commute is shorter than an average city dweller's? Seriously?

Because I'd be happy to pull out study after study after study that contradicts that claim.

Or are you arguing you're the exception to the rule? In which case - what point are you trying to make?

1. If you will pause to read before you start arguing with something that was never said, you will see:

Many residents of NYC have longer commutes than the average here in Austin

As the linked map shows, if you can't afford to live in Manhattan, your commute from Brooklyn, Queens or Staten Island is longer than the average Austin commute. Refute that as you wish.

2. The quoted article was titled "Your Commute is Slowly Killing You". I said no, it isn't. I wasn't the one that chose the pronoun "you". Refute that as you wish. Besides, if long commutes are killing anyone, they are killing those in the urban paradise of NY faster than they are killing Austinites - and transit riders before car commuters.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by scm53

1. If you will pause to read before you start arguing with something that was never said, you will see:



As the linked map shows, if you can't afford to live in Manhattan, your commute from Brooklyn, Queens or Staten Island is longer than the average Austin commute. Refute that as you wish.

2. The quoted article was titled "Your Commute is Slowly Killing You". I said no, it isn't. I wasn't the one that chose the pronoun "you". Refute that as you wish. Besides, if long commutes are killing anyone, they are killing those in the urban paradise of NY faster than they are killing Austinites - and transit riders before car commuters.

NYC has almost 9 Million residents.
Austin less than a million.

Are you surprised in any way that many "mega commuters" in NYC have longer commutes than here in Austin? It's 10 Times the size of Austin! And those people are commuting from as far away as PENNSYLVANIA.

You can twist the data however you like, but at the end of the day - sprawl makes for horrendous commuting and extremely poor options for people who would like to go without a car. In Austin, this means essentially on a very tiny percentage of people (single digits) will take any alternative to driving whatsoever.

That's not true in sensibly built cities.

[scm53]

Originally Posted by Komeht

NYC has almost 20 Million residents.
Austin less than a million.

Are you surprised in any way that many "mega commuters" in NYC have longer commutes than here in Austin? It's 25 Times the size of Austin! And those people are commuting from as far away as PENNSYLVANIA.

You can twist the data however you like, but at the end of the day - sprawl makes for horrendous commuting and extremely poor options for people who would like to go without a car. In Austin, this means essentially on a very tiny percentage of people (single digits) will take any alternative to driving whatsoever.

That's not true in sensibly built cities.

Brooklyn, Queens, and Staten Island aren't Pennsylvania. They all face longer commutes than the average Austinite.

Who's the one "twist(ing) the data?

[verybadgnome]

Originally Posted by scm53

Where you live has nothing to do with the length of your commute. I live in suburbia, and I will bet a steak dinner at Perry's Steakhouse my commute is shorter than yours. So no, MY commute isn't killing me.

You can just as easily have a long commute in a dense urban setting as a suburban one. Many residents of NYC have longer commute times than the average here in Austin. As a state, NY had the highest percentage of workers with long commutes - with the preponderance of those workers being in NYC.

So when are you buying me that steak?

Of course it does if there are no jobs in proximity to your residence (unless you are telecommuting).

You are an outlier if your commute is less than 2 miles and live in the burbs. If you live in a bedroom community in an Austin suburb basically you have no choice but to commute to at least the next neighboring town.

If you want to argue over anecdotal information all three of my FT jobs in Austin have been downtown so any place outside of the city limits (sorry but West Lake, Rollingwood, and Sunset Valley aren't really options) would have involved a long commute for me. No steak for you buddy.