Portland light rail's mixed track record (Austin, Round Rock: to buy, quality of life, mall)

[TexasHorseLady]

Originally Posted by petro

You're own article that that you sourced for this thread disagrees with you.



The irony here is that the article you posted is largely positive on the results and benefits of the rail system in Portland. And it poses some interesting questions for Austin, such as," 'What kind of community do you want to create?' In healthy, livable communities, people aren’t dependent on their cars."

And I like that the author acknowledges the culture of sprawl in Austin as the #1 challenge to the success of light rail here. Austin is growing up and we need to decide who we want to be. We can continue the careless Houston-type sprawl, or we can be more thoughtful in our approach.

Regarding the Statesman title, "Portland light rail's mixed track record," it is sensational and misleading at best—obvious click bait. Anyone who has read the article would agree.

You do realize that that's an opinion, and a biased one, whether you happen to agree with it or not, right? Or is the only possible healthy, livable community one that fits your personal preferences?

[riaelise]

How can anyone say that BUSES are better than trains? Whatchu talkin bout Willis?

I ride Metrorail and, on occasion, MetroRapid. "Metrorapid" was anything but fast, taking 45-50 minutes to get to Tech Ridge, whereas Metrorail was a smooth 30 minute ride. How can one actually compare the two? Obviously, people who aren't seasoned public transit riders.

[winkosmosis]

Originally Posted by riaelise

How can anyone say that BUSES are better than trains? Whatchu talkin bout Willis?

I ride Metrorail and, on occasion, MetroRapid. "Metrorapid" was anything but fast, taking 45-50 minutes to get to Tech Ridge, whereas Metrorail was a smooth 30 minute ride. How can one actually compare the two? Obviously, people who aren't seasoned public transit riders.

People who oppose rail and say "bus is just as good and cheaper" are the ones who don't use public transportation and will never use public transportation.

[petro]

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

You do realize that that's an opinion, and a biased one, whether you happen to agree with it or not, right? Or is the only possible healthy, livable community one that fits your personal preferences?

You can take that up with the executive director of the Portland Development Commission. Those are his words, not mine. Although, I tend to agree.

[Devout Urbanist]

Originally Posted by winkosmosis

People who oppose rail and say "bus is just as good and cheaper" are the ones who don't use public transportation and will never use public transportation.

And, like I said, these people never point to actual bus systems to prove their point. Where are these outstanding, enviable bus systems in America that outperform rail? Which cities outperform SEPTA and SF light rail with just buses? Tell us about them. I'm not saying it can't be done or that these systems don't exist. I would just like for people who take the "bus is just as good and cheaper" position to actually provide some solid evidence that this is the case.

[PeopleAreStrange]

Though I support more passenger rail, Austin's proposed urban rail plan is pathetic.

It stops 3 miles short of the southeastern airport, yet extends 3 miles north of UT to a suburban mall already served by commuter rail.

[Komeht]

Originally Posted by Devout Urbanist

And, like I said, these people never point to actual bus systems to prove their point. Where are these outstanding, enviable bus systems in America that outperform rail? Which cities outperform SEPTA and SF light rail with just buses? Tell us about them. I'm not saying it can't be done or that these systems don't exist. I would just like for people who take the "bus is just as good and cheaper" position to actually provide some solid evidence that this is the case.

They can't because it's a bunch of nonsense.

Trains simply attract riders who will never take the bus - period. That's just a fact and proven everywhere its been tried. It's really maddening trying to argue with flat earthers who won't buy into basic concepts that literally every transit expert in the world acknowledges as true and instead look to libertarians transit haters as their source of information.

[atxcio]

Originally Posted by PeopleAreStrange

Though I support more passenger rail, Austin's proposed urban rail plan is pathetic.

It stops 3 miles short of the southeastern airport, yet extends 3 miles north of UT to a suburban mall already served by commuter rail.

I agree completely.

[austin-steve]

Originally Posted by Devout Urbanist

And, like I said, these people never point to actual bus systems to prove their point. Where are these outstanding, enviable bus systems in America that outperform rail? Which cities outperform SEPTA and SF light rail with just buses? Tell us about them. I'm not saying it can't be done or that these systems don't exist. I would just like for people who take the "bus is just as good and cheaper" position to actually provide some solid evidence that this is the case.

I think it's more the responsibility of rail proponents to prove your case. What problem will all this proposed Austin rail actual solve and how much will it cost?

It would be nice if there was a commonly accepted metric upon which to measure "success". Like a "transit score" that takes into account all the various and nuanced variables. That's probably not possible as even coming up with such a measure would create debate. So us meat and potato eaters are left to simply ask, "how much will it cost and what problem will it solve?" And then we get sticker shock and are skeptical of the promise.

I would love to love rail. Just like I'd love to drive a Tesla, or an Audi. But my last purchase (for my wife) was a Hyundai Sonata because I run the math on things when spending my own money. I'm still driving a 2008 Chevy Silverado. I expect my government and fellow citizens to do the same instead of falling in love with a dreamy, expensive wish of an idea that rail will make anything better in Austin TX. If it will, prove it with numbers, maps and data based on provable assumptions.

Steve

[10scoachrick]

I think a big part of the problem is selling ANY transit idea to folks who are very likely to be living somewhere else before one scintilla of improvement is ever realized from most of these projects...IF indeed there IS improvement. In the meantime, it costs lots of money and creates all sorts of inconvenience.