Austin tax burden up 25% in seven years (sale, mortgage)

[Novacek]

Originally Posted by scm53

You know, for a guy that DEMANDS the source of a black and white chart, you sure do make a lot of inflated, unsubstantiated claims.

As promised, the link to the previous discussion (with _you_). Where I provided the links that _prove_ that resurfacing is paid for in part by transportation bonds.

//www.city-data.com/forum/austi...l#post34320833

[HappyTexan]

It's not just Austin within the city limits.
The sprawl created by everyone that hitched their star on Austin also hit folks outside of the city limits.
I was in Travis county and my taxes went from $2K to $6K over the years mostly due to the increased services/ISD from the newcomers who couldn't afford to live in Austin proper.

[hoffdano]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

Prop 13 applies to all assessable property in California.

No one needs to be held hostage by Prop 13... those empty nesters wanting to downsize can transfer their Prop 13 assessment anywhere in the county and several counties allow transfers between counties.

Moving in itself doesn't free up housing... moving only shuffles the deck.

Are you happy with commercial property taxation under Prop 13?

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by hoffdano

Are you happy with commercial property taxation under Prop 13?

I would say yes...

California constitution prohibits split tax rolls and I would never want a return to the pre Prop 13 days of double digit tax increase and corruption/scandal in the Assessors offices.

Prop 13 in it's entirely is a few simple paragraphs, easy to understand and implement.

There was no shortage of commercial and residential property changing hands the last few years...

I owned property in Washington State where the assessment increased 80% over purchase price in 18 months... talk about bad and what a roller coaster of value.

[hillcountryheart]

Originally Posted by ScoPro

If it weren't for all those tens of thousands of non-resident commuters, Austin would cease to exist as a functioning city. Not to mention the state government too.

Huh? We did just fine before the influx of new money drove home prices through the roof. I'm aware that we need affordable housing for our workforce. But I'm also aware that other counties strain our infrastructure and that Austin taxpayers are bearing a disproportionate share of that cost. Isn't that part of this thread's title - Austin tax burden going up 25% in seven years?

It's not just streets; it's energy, water, wastewater, landfill... people who work in Austin but live outside Austin will not pay their share of short-term infrastructure costs. Austin taxpayers MUST foot the short-term bills for emergency and routine maintenance and hope that eventually things will cool off and more efficient, larger-scale infrastructure is in place. I'm not holding my breath.

[winkosmosis]

Originally Posted by hoffdano

There is no such thing as a tax structure that pleases everyone. A sound tax policy should fund public services (hopefully spent reasonably), be easy to collect, be hard to cheat on, and be reasonably equitable.

Hawaii is not a reasonable comparison in my view. It is too small, does not have a diversified economy, and has very limited natural resources (especially land).

California suffered enormously during the recession because of its heavy reliance on personal and corporate income taxes. The spendy legislature puts expensive programs in place when revenue is high, establishing spending levels that cannot be maintained during lean years. It is a roller coaster. Texas' journey during the recession wasn't pain free but it was much smoother.

I am only somewhat sympathetic to homeowners whose homes have massively appreciated (such as in 78704). For decades they lived a peaceful central Austin life. Then things went crazy.

Don't forget that in Texas your assessed value cannot increase more than 10% per year. If your home doubles in value in one year, your taxes will not double. Assuming rates stay the same your property taxes will be 10% higher.

If your income spikes (such as exercising stock options), your income taxes will spike accordingly. Because income taxes are typically progressive, they will SPIKE.

And now they're forced to relocate. It's incredible that Texas, with its strong Republican/Libertarian bent, is so supportive of a tax system that directly taxes wealth and is effectively rent to the government!

OK, so your property tax can't double in a year. But it can double in 7 years. 10% year to year is huge.

[hoffdano]

Originally Posted by winkosmosis

And now they're forced to relocate. It's incredible that Texas, with its strong Republican/Libertarian bent, is so supportive of a tax system that directly taxes wealth and is effectively rent to the government!

OK, so your property tax can't double in a year. But it can double in 7 years. 10% year to year is huge.

They aren't forced to relocate. But they of course can do that. They can CHOOSE to take the immense capital gains and laugh all the way to the bank. They might not like all the activity that drove their property values up.

Taxes create all kinds of behavior modifications. Taxes on income reduce the incentive to work. Many economists argue that taxing labor is bad. These economists also tend to favor taxes on wealth and property. Other economists think serious taxes on income is the proper thing to do to reduce income inequality.

I pay more attention to my overall tax bill than I do to exactly where I am taxed. I pay more than $10K per year in property taxes. I don't like it. But I would rather pay $10K in local property taxes than state level income taxes. That property tax is spent within 25 miles of where I live. I have a better chance of influencing how it is spent than if a state legislator in Houston gets their hands on it. I don't have any chance of influencing that legislator (or voting them out of office). In my view there is little worse than giving any body of government a huge chunk of money to play with.

Property taxes are a downer for speculators, which helps keep some sanity in the Texas real estate market. Our home prices are rising due to demand, but we have largely been immune from a housing bubble for many decades.

[ericsami]

High Property Taxes have one value and that it controls the property prices from flying.

That is it makes it a bit harder to just by property and sit on it.

but in general.

Sales Tax Penalizes the most poor. and favors the rich

Property Tax: Penalizes the middle class. slightly favors the rich

Income Tax: Favors the Poor because they don't make much to pay in Taxes.

This is why you see conservatives elites left and right favoring sales Tax for everything.

please take everything in economics with huge amount of grain salt.

That is regardless of which faction it comes from.


Economics is the only science in use in modern age that its theories can not be independently reproduced.

That is because it is virtually impossible to perform controlled experiments in Economics.

Thus every thing is based on statistics.

and if you have taken a couple of statistics classes you will know that showing correlation is not easy.

Even Harder is showing Causation once you have correlation.

[winkosmosis]

Originally Posted by hoffdano

They aren't forced to relocate. But they of course can do that. They can CHOOSE to take the immense capital gains and laugh all the way to the bank. They might not like all the activity that drove their property values up.

Taxes create all kinds of behavior modifications. Taxes on income reduce the incentive to work. Many economists argue that taxing labor is bad. These economists also tend to favor taxes on wealth and property. Other economists think serious taxes on income is the proper thing to do to reduce income inequality.

I pay more attention to my overall tax bill than I do to exactly where I am taxed. I pay more than $10K per year in property taxes. I don't like it. But I would rather pay $10K in local property taxes than state level income taxes. That property tax is spent within 25 miles of where I live. I have a better chance of influencing how it is spent than if a state legislator in Houston gets their hands on it. I don't have any chance of influencing that legislator (or voting them out of office). In my view there is little worse than giving any body of government a huge chunk of money to play with.

Property taxes are a downer for speculators, which helps keep some sanity in the Texas real estate market. Our home prices are rising due to demand, but we have largely been immune from a housing bubble for many decades.

Yes it reduces speculation but it also significantly increases the cost of housing


And yes you are forced to move if you don't make enough income to pay the higher taxes


The high property taxes are just insane. The only reason Texans accept it is because they don't know any better. Here in Hawaii we have skyrocketing property values, but there are still many elderly people on Social Security living in their houses now worth $ 1mil. Because property tax is so low that they aren't driven out.

[HappyTexan]

Originally Posted by winkosmosis

Yes it reduces speculation but it also significantly increases the cost of housing


And yes you are forced to move if you don't make enough income to pay the higher taxes


The high property taxes are just insane. The only reason Texans accept it is because they don't know any better. Here in Hawaii we have skyrocketing property values, but there are still many elderly people on Social Security living in their houses now worth $ 1mil. Because property tax is so low that they aren't driven out.

Property taxes are not skyrocketing statewide.
Texas is the hot place to be right now and cities along the I-35 corridor are bubbling.

Other places have not seen double digit increases.
You paint these high property taxes with a broad brush and that is just not the way it works in Texas.