How much longer does Austin have? (Dallas, West: condos, floors, moving)

[Eastcoasting]

All of this mess is clearly the fault of all the native and long time (not a day under 25 years) Austinite-onians.

Ya'll are so good looking, cool, down to earth, friendly, artistically, musically and BBQlly gifted that the rest of the world needed to beat feet to your front door.

We have found the enemy and it's your BAD self after all.

Hang your head.

...and yes I used BBQlly.

[pop251808]

Originally Posted by scm53

Quite the straw man you have created there.

#1 - who are the cohorts demanding "fast roads into town"?

#2 - "commuter culture" is a relative term. Pretty sure people viewed the far flung suburbs of NW Hills, or before that Crestview, or before that Hyde Park as all "commuter culture". Where's the line on the map that says "this side - Austin", "that side - not Austin". Could you point to it, please?

#1) You can't be serious! How about essentially everyone who uses Mopac, I-35, 71 or 290 to get into work every day? Ask them if they don't think "traffic" (everyone around them) is making their commute too slow.

#2) I'm not talking ancient history. I'm pretty sure there isn't anyone left in Austin who thinks of Hyde Park as a suburb. But a good working definition FOR ME as to what is Austin is inside the loop formed by 183, Ben White, and 360 on the west, excluding West Lake Hills and the other stuff on the wrong side of lake Austin. I didn't say those areas weren't nice, some of them, just said they were outside of town.

[seasick]

Originally Posted by scm53

It isn't that I Austin has changed because this restaurant or that music venue is gone. It is what orgnkat pointed to - the corrupting influx of people "concerned with money, status and appearance", all because of the previously unthinkable wages the tech industry has enabled. Austin was a town where the three main employers were the State, UT, and the IRS, with the Air Force a solid fourth - none a path to riches. I remember when Gary Bradley bought a Ferrari in the late Eighties. NO ONE had a Ferrari. Now, sit at the light at Bee Caves and Walsh Tarlton, or look in the valet line at the W. Dime a dozen, along with Maseratis, Lamborghinis, you name it. That's just one noticeable example, but there are plenty of others. Designer handbags, expensive watches, all part of conspicuous consumption that never existed before.

The other change is where the people are coming from. Yes, Austin has had a pretty consistent growth path over multiple decades. The difference is from where. Before about '95, it was Texans, all determined to never go back to Kirbyville, Shallowater, Mercedes -- you name it. But they had ZERO interest in changing Austin to what they left. After '95, we started getting people from all over the US. They were happy to come here, but wouldn't it be so much better if XXXX that I left behind was here as well? Pro sports, commuter trains, bagels, high rises, pizza -- you name it. That guy or gal from Mercedes wanted NOTHING of Mercedes here. Not quite the case today.

So, it isn't the physical landscape of Austin has changed -- it is the spiritual, the ethos. As orngkat said, it is now "anything but laid back."

Oh, I don't know. I remember women almost 25 years ago who would be in Randall's or whatever that high-end one was, there were 2 high end groceries IIRC, and be dragging their fur coats* behind them* on the floor, I guess to show that they had a fur coat (like the winters needed one) and that it meant nothing to them. And all the braggers, and the guys with their fancy watches and fancy golf whatevers, and the spoiled brats at UT, and people always wanting more - they were business people, they were political animals, they were rolling in wealth inherited and otherwise and grabbing wealth via being in with the in crowd at the Capitol, and they were Texans. And they drove fancy wheels.

People have been talking about Austin changing its precious self for decades.

[scm53]

Originally Posted by seasick

Oh, I don't know. I remember women almost 25 years ago who would be in Randall's or whatever that high-end one was, there were 2 high end groceries IIRC ...

Yup. The Tom Thumb in WLH (where the Stein Mart is now) was like that. But that was an isolated pocket, that everyone knew was different. Difference is, today, there are many more than 2 "high end groceries". So many that you have helped make my point.

[orngkat]

30 years here now so I guess I qualify as an old grumbler. I have an open mind and long-term perspective however. We've lived north, south and central and have witnessed first hand all of these grumbly changes. 15 years ago, I thought the traffic was getting kind of stressful driving between our Oak Hill home and downtown work. We decided to downsize, move into town and get closer to everything. Apparently, it was the right move. I don't even know how people put up with what that trek has become - just glad we are central and not out there. I like change - a lot. But a lot of things going on now are impulsive and greed-driven. The things I miss that are forever gone are mostly the natural environment so in that sense Austin only has left whatever future it creates. I am glad I got to take long drives out 71 before it became a sea of "upscale" houses and shopping centers. It was beautiful! And it's gone.

[seasick]

Originally Posted by scm53

Yup. The Tom Thumb in WLH (where the Stein Mart is now) was like that. But that was an isolated pocket, that everyone knew was different. Difference is, today, there are many more than 2 "high end groceries". So many that you have helped make my point.

*laff laff* - "everyone knew was different."

Verbal contortions on your part don't turn my remarks into supporting your point.

But it's useless talking to people who WANT to view things a certain way.

[scm53]

Originally Posted by seasick

*laff laff* - "everyone knew was different."

Yea, WLH was soooooo much like the rest of Austin.

Which was exactly the point of living there, in case you hadn't noticed.

[pop251808]

Originally Posted by scm53

Yea, WLH was soooooo much like the rest of Austin.

Which was exactly the point of living there, in case you hadn't noticed.

I thought the point of WLH, more so back in the day, was so that your kids wouldn't have to go to school with anyone other than other upper-middle white kids.

[verybadgnome]

Originally Posted by Eastcoasting

Nostalgia is a file that removes the rough edges from the good old days.
Doug Larson

Nostalgia is a powerful feeling; it can drown out anything.
Terrence Malick

It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice. There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia.
Frank Zappa

Funny you mentioned Zappa as I was thinking of another musician from the same period, Ray Davies of The Kinks. He wrote whole albums where the narrator was nostalgic for an England that never really existed. Now some of the elements were real, but the entire thing taken as a whole was a fantasy that made for a great topic the other leading groups of that era never tackled. I think there is a whole selective memory thing that lends itself to this.

[ATX Wahine]

Originally Posted by verybadgnome

Funny you mentioned Zappa as I was thinking of another musician from the same period, Ray Davies of The Kinks. He wrote whole albums where the narrator was nostalgic for an England that never really existed. Now some of the elements were real, but the entire thing taken as a whole was a fantasy that made for a great topic the other leading groups of that era never tackled. I think there is a whole selective memory thing that lends itself to this.

Ahhh ... close to my heart, Ray Davies.

They put a parking lot on a piece of land
When the supermarket used to stand.
Before that they put up a bowling alley
On the site that used to be the local palais.
That's where the big bands used to come and play.
My sister went there on a Saturday.

Come dancing,
All her boyfriends used to come and call.
Why not come dancing, it's only natural?

Another Saturday, another date.
She would be ready but she's always make him wait.
In the hallway, in anticipation,
He didn't know the night would end up in frustration.
He'd end up blowing all his wages for the week
All for a cuddle and a peck on the cheek.

Come dancing,
That's how they did it when I was just a kid,
And when they said come dancing,
My sister always did.

My sister should have come in at midnight,
And my mum would always sit up and wait.
It always ended up in a big row
When my sister used to get home late.

Out of my window I can see them in the moonlight,
Two silhouettes saying goodnight by the garden gate.

The day they knocked down the palais
My sister stood and cried.
The day they knocked down the palais
Part of my childhood died, just died.

Now I'm grown up and playing in a band,
And there's a car park where the palais used to stand.
My sister's married and she lives on an estate.
Her daughters go out, now it's her turn to wait.
She knows they get away with things she never could,
But if I asked her I wonder if she would,

Come dancing,
Come on sister, have yourself a ball.
Don't be afraid to come dancing,
It's only natural.

Come dancing,
Just like the palais on a Saturday.
And all her friends will come dancing
Where the big bands used to play.