Howard Ranch in Driftwood (Austin, Spring: big house, landscaping, neighborhood)

[TexasHorseLady]

As said above, we live in the country and we're not tied into any agreement as to where we purchase our propane. We've purchased it over the years from several different dealers.

[Driftwood1]

We are in Driftwood and can buy propane from whoever we want. We own the tank. We are unrestricted though, no HoA for us.

Originally Posted by TexasHorseLady

As said above, we live in the country and we're not tied into any agreement as to where we purchase our propane. We've purchased it over the years from several different dealers.

[AGA]

My thoughts on the propane issue...If the vendor to the development does not continue to provide economical pricing/benefits for the community, doesn't the HOA then have a duty/obligation/responsibility to the community and its residents to seek another provider? Thus the way the development was initially set up seems like a "starter set up" and then becomes managed by the HOA upon unought residents moving in to manage it. IT is the vendor who should be providing good customer care and wervice in order to keep the account!!! Right!!!

My thoughts on the development on other aspects...
We went to visit there when they had the BIG community open house day last year. I absolutely loved it and thought the development as a whole was a super idea and have nothing negative to say EXCEPT, the school district. If we were moving to DS and all that involves (commuting time, employment centers, amenities etc..) we would want our kids in DS schools as we have heard GREAT things about the DS school system.
Sadly, Howard Ranch in not within the DS school district and the alternative district was not an appealing option.

That was a deal breaker for us to pursue it further.

[austin-steve]

doesn't the HOA then have a duty/obligation/responsibility to the community and its residents to seek another provider?

That would depend on the contractual agreements set up from the start between the developer and the provider, but I think it's fair to say that the effectiveness of the arrangement should be easy to determine.

Bottom line is whether or not a shared sysem versus individual tanks result in a lower cost of propane for the end user over the long run.

I have a 500 gallon buried propane tank at my house, which was included in the construction cost when I built the house. I'm having the tank filled next week, which will probably cost me $700 +/-. (I don't know the current cost per gallon for propane, but I think it's about $2+ per gallon). I have it filled 2 or 3 times a year.

I don't know how the homes in the shared system neighborhoods such as Belterra and HR are metered, or if it's a per gallon charge, but I would expect the per gallon charge to be less than what I pay ordering it from the delivery truck. If it's not, then I would wonder why.

Steve

[iceshots]

As a recent purchaser in Dripping, I looked into the community propane issue and it did become a factor when weighing one house off against the other. There is a thread buried in history where people responded to me with their monthly propane bills in Belterra. I think the consensus was that they were paying over the going rate for propane. Because their propane usage was within reason, they did not see it as a big issue.

When we did the "in Belterra" versus "outside Belterra" comparison, the propane issue showed up on the negative side as a big unknown. While it was not a large factor in our decision, it did play a part.

So in our case, both sides of this argument were somewhat right. Yes, I did see the propane delivery lock in as a negative, but most of the people I communicated with in Belterra did not appear to see it as a major issue.

If the HOA would switch vendors if the pricing was not competitive, then the community system seems like a great idea. However, as long as the builder controls the HOA, and there is the possibility of "arrangements" being put in place that favors a specific vendor, then it is one more unknown that I would prefer not to be saddled with.

[IC_deLight]

In most cases the "HOA" does not have the authority to alter the arrangement. The CCRs are written by the declarant and amended unilaterally by the declarant. The CCRs mandate both propane consuming appliances and that the lot owners purchase only from a particular vendor. The HOA is the declarant's mechanism of enforcing that against the homeowners.

With respect to metering and billing, there are typically two charges every month. One charge is a monthly account fee that you must pay for the privilege of remaining a customer - a position that you have no ability to change. The second charge is for gas consumed. However, people usually don't know what they are paying because the gas is sold as "cubic feet" whereas propane is typically marketed in terms of liquid gallons.

In order to find out whether you are paying too much, take your cubic feet of consumption and divide by 36.38. This will yield gallons of liquid propane in terms of standards used in the industry. Now take the bill and divide by gallons to obtain price/gallon.

Once you have the price/gallon you can compare it to prices elsewhere. However, keep in mind that the other prices are based upon buying small quantities (200-500 gallons typically) and labor is generally included. These central gas systems are typically purchasing for a 30,000 gallon tank. This is important because the subdivisions will often make claims about the economies of scale and you will probably discover that any benefits of bulk purchasing are not passed on to the customers.

You shouldn't be surprised to find an arrangement whereby the declarant receives a cut of proceeds to the propane vendor - into perpetuity. Again, when you see that the CCRs actually mandate a particular type of appliance you need to realize that you will be over a barrel when it comes to the price you have to pay to heat your home. An HOA does not operate to benefit the homeowners - it operates to benefit whoever controls the board. There is no PUC for central propane systems.

[austin-steve]

In order to find out whether you are paying too much, take your cubic feet of consumption and divide by 36.38. This will yield gallons of liquid propane in terms of standards used in the industry. Now take the bill and divide by gallons to obtain price/gallon.

Exactly. Good advice/math. I'd be interested to know how this works out if there are any Belterra/Highpoint/HR people online reading this.

I just had my tank filled and it was $570 total for 300 gallons, which is $1.90 per gallon. That included delivery and there was no tax included on the bill (though it may be in the total price, just not itemized - I'm not sure).

That would be the equivalent of about 11K in cubic feet of metered propane, which would be about $0.052 per cubic foot. About a nickle a cubic foot.

Of course, for a true apples to apples comparison, I'd have to factor in the cost of my propane tank, which is actually free with the Texas Railroad Commission rebate, but the installation is about $1000, and it should last about 20 years. So that's about $5 per month ownership cost of the tank on a straight-line calculation.

Steve

[IC_deLight]

A total recovery is not necessary because you would presumably recover that when you sell the house as well. In other words, it's not apples to apples to compare the tank installation to the monthly fees in the central systems because you presumably recover the tank costs when you sell the house. In the central gas systems, you own nothing, you never get the monthly fees back and they only go up!

[Howard Ranch]

Howard Ranch is indeed in the Dripping Springs School District. It is 2 miles from all the schools.

[Howard Ranch]

I find it interesting that this thread continues. Our CCR's require propane appliances to fund the infrastructure(if you go to the trouble of installing a central propane system, you want folks to actually use it), period. What would be the purpose of requiring propane appliances if an owner opted out of the propane agreement? We have no deal with any propane appliance manufacturers. Purchases are more than welcome to see our propane agreement which protects their interest and the neighborhood's. If someone is interested, wants to purchase a home and does not want propane(which has yet to happen) however, I will pay the fee for them and they can install wood burning appliances if they choose to do so. How's that?